Where Religion and Politics Combine with Unexpected Results.

[_RockSlider]

Interesting take Moclips.

I also live in a high illegal immigrant area, and here is another observation that I had about our ward/stake involvement with these families while I was active and in a Bishopric.

It was kind of like hearing about the baseball baptisms, only with a much wiser/savvier group of players. I saw cases where the missionary pride we take in being language versatile, along with are desire to friendship these families was abused by them to gain help in communication to help them get established (governmental, workplace etc.). We were like a friendly underground contact for them as they entered into the country to help them get safely on their way. With little interest in becoming Mormon, but lots of interest in all of the help that was available.

[_Kishkumen]

"Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men."

Ayn Rand was a heartless, cruel, and narcissistic person. Her philosophy is inhumane, her historical viewpoint factually erroneous. Her work and memory should be consigned to the obscurity of a footnote in the history of intellectual curiosities.

[_honorentheos]

Oh, and Ayn Rand was a deeply disturbed person. Again, fact.

Never heard of Ayn ...

Stop right there. You are balancing on a threshold and to fall over the edge would add a little more sadness to the world.

There are few admissions so sweet as, "I've never heard of Ayn Rand."

[Guest]

Hey zee ... "who is John Galt".

Its a long read, but worth it ... I thought.

by the way, kish is obviously a socialist ... and would never make a railroad man

[_honorentheos]

"Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men."

Ayn Rand was a heartless, cruel, and narcissistic person. Her philosophy is inhumane, her historical viewpoint factually erroneous. Her work and memory should be consigned to the obscurity of a footnote in the history of intellectual curiosities.

Damn it. Too late.

[_Kishkumen]

Hey zee ... "who is John Galt".

Its a long read, but worth it ... I thought.

by the way, kish is obviously a socialist ... and would never make a railroad man

Yes, anyone who does not believe that selfishness is a supreme virtue, or that corporations are more important than people MUST be a socialist. LOL!!! You card.

Ayn Rand idolized a heinous murderer. John Galt is a fictional character.

Most damning--Ayn Rand was a second rate writer and a third rate philosopher.

[_zeezrom]

Damn! She must be something.

Well, I'm real busy with Louise Brooks these days so, no Ayn for me!

[_Kishkumen]

Damn! She must be something.

Well, I'm real busy with Louise Brooks these days so, no Ayn for me!

Yes, Danielle Steele is something too. She is a better writer than Ayn Rand.

[_RockSlider]

My grandfather taught me my work ethic. It was a curse. He was born in 1901, married in 1916. He raised his family during and through the great depression. At a time that he had worked up a fair stake in life and lost it all to the government and banks. I heard lots of stories of his years living in a tent, working construction. His tales of the likes of The CCC and the "New Deal" (ever noticed the terracing of the Mountains around SLC?). And his struggles to rebuild his life, his wealth and success.

When I first read Atlas Shrugged, my mind was instantly taken back to his stories of men like him, how they had lost all and their struggles to survive and to rebuild. These survivors were the owners and leaders of the industrial explosion of the 40's, 50's and 60's that put the USA the clear industrial and economical giant of the world, at the time.

I'm somewhat surprised at how harsh you are to what I assume might have been a pretty big mind share of American industrial thought coming out of the Great Depression.

But then I'm not an educated man, and only have the memories of my grandfather's tales.

[_Kishkumen]

I'm somewhat surprised at how harsh you are to what I assume might have been a pretty big mind share of American industrial thought coming out of the Great Depression.

But then I'm not an educated man, and only have the memories of my grandfather's tales.

I can't adequately assess your grandfather or your understanding of Ayn Rand. So, I am not sure how to respond.

All I can say is that based on the facts, it is clear to me that Ayn Rand was the center of an irrational cult of personality, that she did idolize a murderer precisely because he cared nothing about other human beings, and that her understanding of how economies actually work was abysmal. My opinion of her writing is based on my taste in literature, which doesn't find bad philosophy and sadism-lite all that appealing.

I can't say that her writing has never inspired anyone in a positive way. No doubt it has. But I don't believe that the philosophy of selfishness is healthy or representative of how the human species works. We are a mix of selfishness and cooperation, naturally so, in fact.