Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

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_marg
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _marg »

emilysmith wrote:
It was presented by someone claiming to be a direct descendent of Spaulding. Other than that, I'm not inclined to give up someone else's personal details. I'll bet it can be Googled up. This was all part of a discussion among ex-Mormons.


Thanks Emily. So that quote comes from a discussion on a message board on the Net by someone claiming to be an ancestor of Spaulding? Not very reliable then.

I see though in the other long quote it appears there was a newspaper (date ?) which claims that a grandson of Rev. Spaulding..Mr. J. A. McKinstry of Longmeadow, a son of the late Dr. McKinstry, of Monson, said that that Smith and Ridgon attended Rev. Spalding readings. As B. McGuire points out based upon ages of Smith relative to Rev. Spaulding..it is highly unlikely to have happened. Added to that I've never read from any witness who testified to Hurlbut that either J. Smith attended..nor Rigdon. And I think Hurlbut who sought testimonies from friends and neighbours of Spalding would have been very alert to that fact had it occurred.

Personally, I don't usually chase the anti-Mormon rabbit that far down the hole, but some of it looked new to me, which means some of it would be new to all of you. The point highlighted by Juggler Vain is a good one, and it was one of the first things that came to mind when I first read the wall of text.


The Spalding theory may appear to be anti-mormon however it is a high probability historical theory. There is a lot of information and evidence supporting it. I have noticed on this board, few people take much of an interest in it, for whatever reason. I wish people like sockpuppet and Darth who are very analytically minded and well spoken did take an interest.
_Tobin
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _Tobin »

why me wrote:
Benjamin McGuire wrote:Joseph Smith was born on December 23, 1805. Solomon Spalding died on October 20, 1816. In 1812, Joseph Smith would have been six years old. Spalding moved from New Salem to Pittsburgh in 1812, when Joseph was (again) just six years old. He must have been a precocious reader .... and Spalding must have been pretty trusting to let a six year old walk off with his only manuscript copy for a week or more ....


:lol: <<<< but you need to remember that antimormons are antimormons and it doesn't matter what time frame they are operating in. There main job is to cast doubt and misinform.
Hey, stop it why me. I love to have a good Solomon Spalding discussion. Mostly, I like to see who the nuts are that subscribe to it because you can automatically discount anything they might have to say in the future.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_why me
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _why me »

Mary wrote:

As I recall, I bought the same thing up over on the Mad boards a few years ago, and this was also the opinion of Dale Broadhurst.


Dale has spent years and years attempting to prove the Spaulding theory. And so far, he has failed. The Book of Mormon authorship is a hard nut to crack for the critics.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Buffalo
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _Buffalo »

why me wrote:
Dale has spent years and years attempting to prove the Spaulding theory. And so far, he has failed. The Book of Mormon authorship is a hard nut to crack for the critics.


Not really. Its 19th century origins have been proven beyond shadow of a doubt. Who wrote which unoriginal piece of it is irrelevant.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Tobin
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _Tobin »

Buffalo wrote:
why me wrote:Dale has spent years and years attempting to prove the Spaulding theory. And so far, he has failed. The Book of Mormon authorship is a hard nut to crack for the critics.
Not really. Its 19th century origins have been proven beyond shadow of a doubt. Who wrote which unoriginal piece of it is irrelevant.
Ummm, no. I think critics often make the mistake of confusing the fact it was produced by a 19th century person, which of course it was, with what the source material was. It has always been a very simple thing really. Just speak with God about it. If God doesn't answer you, it's a fiction, fraud, and fantasy. You don't need to think about it any longer. Gold books just don't fall out of the sky. End of story.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Buffalo
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _Buffalo »

Tobin wrote:Ummm, no. I think critics often make the mistake of confusing the fact it was produced by a 19th century person, which of course it was, with what the source material was. It has always been a very simple thing really. Just speak with God about it. If God doesn't answer you, it's a fiction, fraud, and fantasy. You don't need to think about it any longer. Gold books just don't fall out of the sky. End of story.


God verified to me that he is, in fact, Elvis.

Magic isn't real Tobin. And the fact remains that the Book of Mormon was composed in the 19th century.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Tobin
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _Tobin »

Buffalo wrote:
Tobin wrote:Ummm, no. I think critics often make the mistake of confusing the fact it was produced by a 19th century person, which of course it was, with what the source material was. It has always been a very simple thing really. Just speak with God about it. If God doesn't answer you, it's a fiction, fraud, and fantasy. You don't need to think about it any longer. Gold books just don't fall out of the sky. End of story.
God verified to me that he is, in fact, Elvis.
Magic isn't real Tobin. And the fact remains that the Book of Mormon was composed in the 19th century.
Yes, I get it. You don't believe in God either. Not my problem to solve.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Mary
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _Mary »

why me wrote:
Mary wrote:

As I recall, I bought the same thing up over on the Mad boards a few years ago, and this was also the opinion of Dale Broadhurst.


Dale has spent years and years attempting to prove the Spaulding theory. And so far, he has failed. The Book of Mormon authorship is a hard nut to crack for the critics.


It's not about 'proving' anything Why me. It's another theory that has as much if not more substance to it, than any other theory on Book of Mormon origins, and you know that.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Buffalo
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _Buffalo »

Tobin wrote: Yes, I get it. You don't believe in God either. Not my problem to solve.


Is the fact that the Book of Mormon was composed entirely in the 19th century (cribbed Bible passages excepted) your problem to solve?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_marg
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Re: Shedding New Light on Solomon Spalding

Post by _marg »

why me wrote:
Dale has spent years and years attempting to prove the Spaulding theory. And so far, he has failed. The Book of Mormon authorship is a hard nut to crack for the critics.


Well there are 3 theories given consideration generally:

-God inspired Smith

-Smith alone..no manuscript or help from others

-Spalding manuscript used by a combination of individuals which include Rigdon, Smith and Cowdery with potential input from others.


The main argument for the Smith alone theory and for rejection of Spalding theory rests upon the credibility of the Mormon witnesses... which I've seen argued is supposed to supercede the credibility of the Spalding witnesses. And yet as beefcalf pointed out to you recently in 2 posts viewtopic.php?p=581144#p581144

viewtopic.php?p=581148#p581148

Mormon witnesses as well as Smith have an established history of not being reliably honest and trustworthy. On the other hand the Spalding witnesses had no motivational benefit to lie.


Beefcalf wrote: "The fact that we can verify, unambiguously, that Smith was willing to produce false affidavits to support his cause means that it is reasonable and proper for us to consider any and all affidavits produced by him, including his statements of the three and eight witnesses, to be untrustworthy."

And I noticed why me, in that thread you had no comment to beefcalf's post.
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