Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)

[_3sheets2thewind]

I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

As for the names used being identified to real people, that does not prove much of anything. Claiming the names prove authenticity of the letter is like claiming the meer existence of the Dead Sea Scrolls is all the evidence needed to prove there is a God.

[_sock puppet]

I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

I like that rule, epistemologically speaking. 'pics or it didn't happen'. That leaves religious claims, especially Mormon ones, in a hell of a proof hole with no way to get out.

[_harmony]

I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

I like that rule, epistemologically speaking. 'pics or it didn't happen'. That leaves religious claims, especially Mormon ones, in a hell of a proof hole with no way to get out.

Sorta like the proof hole about this email.

[Guest]

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[_Drifting]

I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

I like that rule, epistemologically speaking. 'pics or it didn't happen'. That leaves religious claims, especially Mormon ones, in a hell of a proof hole with no way to get out.

Yep, Mormon's believe the claimed Testimony of a small number of witnesses yet they haven't seen the original document nor any signatures.

[_why me]

Hey, whyme, do you not think that given this man's (Mr. Phillips') apparent thinking regarding the Church, Elder Holland did not understand that his response would likely be disseminated? I give him far more credit than that. I believe he likely has no problem at all with his message getting out to other apostates. No?

It depends on how much he knows about the internet. As we can see, the person who go the email took some pleasure in posting it on the postmo board. And he got the usual response from the peanut gallery. I would hope that GA's would be careful in responding to exmos with email. It is a no win situation.

[_why me]

I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

This would be decent proof. However, the point is: it is just an email. Nothing great or prophetic. And email is an email and emails are written during all times of the day, usually without much thought. Now a handwritten letter would always be the way to go when responding to someone who is an exmember.

[_why me]

Don't worry, why me, the more of your posts I read the more I suspect you may not have such a soul--or any type of soul.

Actually, just the opposite. I am not so quick to judge. Let me put it this way: someone writes to a GA and gets a response. And what does this person do with the email? Post it on a exmormon board so the person writing the email can be mocked and bashed. Is that a nice soul? My soul is clean in this regard. I am not so quick to judge and accept without more proof.

[_Drifting]

Don't worry, why me, the more of your posts I read the more I suspect you may not have such a soul--or any type of soul.

Actually, just the opposite. I am not so quick to judge. Let me put it this way: someone writes to a GA and gets a response. And what does this person do with the email? Post it on a exmormon board so the person writing the email can be mocked and bashed. Is that a nice soul? My soul is clean in this regard. I am not so quick to judge and accept without more proof.

Did you believe Elder Holland when he said at Conference that he was holding aloft the actual Book of Mormon owned and used by Hyrum Smith? Or did you seek more proof...

[_Chap]

I have to say that Holland's message is wholly consistent with the expectations I have formed after several years of reading message boards on which people who have left, or who are considering leaving the CoJCoLDS have posted descriptions (or in some cases the actual text) of responses to questions they have received from church leaders at various levels.

It is all there: the complete inability to face up to issues of fact that might reasonably cause one to question the church's account of itself, and the quick resort to emotional blackmail as a substitute response ("I am so upset ... what will your poor family think?"). The only ingredient lacking is the "You are a liar - someone just pretending to be a doubting member in order to troll" tactic that one sees on the MADboard. But in this case it is impossible for Holland to do that.

The extreme plausibility of this message is such that the only reasonable response is to presume it to be true until it is proven otherwise.