Pick any GC talk. Everyone of those is prophecy according to the scriptural definition.
What, even the Elder Dunn talks?
October 23, 1991 "I have been accused of various activities unbecoming a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. "I confess that I have not always been accurate in my public talks and writings. Furthermore, I have indulged in other activities inconsistent with the high and sacred office which I have held. "For all of these I feel a deep sense of remorse, and ask forgiveness of any whom I may have offended. "My brethren of the General Authorities, over a long period of time, have conducted in-depth investigations of the charges made against me. They have weighed the evidence. They have censured me and placed a heavy penalty upon me. "I accept their censure and the imposed penalty, and pledge to conduct my life in such a way as to merit their confidence and full fellowship. "In making these acknowledgements, I plead for the understanding of my brethren and sisters throughout the Church and give assurance of my determination so to live as to bring added respect to the cause I deeply love, and honor to the Lord who is my Redeemer. "Sincerely, Paul H. Dunn"
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I would like to add something else, because there is a specific reason bc's response troubles me, beyond the fact that he refuses to deal fairly with the issue due to religious idealism.
The fact is that in the early days of the LDS Church, the gift of prophecy was exercised with great frequency, as were all the gifts of the Spirit. Sometimes they worked better than others.
But to my mind, it wasn't the success rate that was important--it was the fact that they were exercised.
We act as if exercising the gifts of the Spirit should be an easy thing, or that somebody should be able to pitch a no-hitter their first time to the mound. But these things take practice, and even the best and most experienced is going to goof it as often as not.
The same thing goes with the gifts of the Spirit, including prophecy.
Mormons have bought into the criticism that one wrong prophecy makes somebody a false prophet. (A proposition I find ridiculous on its face.)
But because Mormons have bought into it, they no longer even try to prophecy, leading Mormons to the strange position of promoting prophecy and claiming not just one living prophet, but fifteen of them, at the head of the Church--all of whom absolutely refuse to prophesy anything.
So the reason that bc's response troubles me is that I think he buys into the proposition that any incorrect prophecy makes the utterer a false prophet, and he is therefore sworn to do or die to defend any LDS prophets (who will be earlier prophets, natch) who issued wrong prophecies and to twist terms as much as is needed to make them "true."
I think if we as Mormons divested ourselves of the attitude that all prophecies must come to pass or disaster will befall the institutionalized Church, maybe we could make a little room for the Spirit to actually circulate and pop in for a visit once in a while.
I mean, we seem to have gotten the message with blessings for the sick. Mormons really don't even expect those will work anymore, and so they by and large do not. But we have grown accustomed to it and don't think it reflects badly on the priesthood or the church or anything.
Maybe it is time for us to give the same kind of leeway to the other gifts of the Spirit.
I mean, it is what the LDS Church was founded on, wasn't it? And doesn't it figure prominently in at least one article of faith memorized by the kids?
All the Best!
--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
consiglieri wrote:I mean, it is what the LDS Church was founded on, wasn't it?
Doesn't seem to be the case. It was founded on a web of lies spun by a frontier huckster.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain "The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
Thus we see that Mormon leaders are not qualified to be called prophets because they don't predict future events which is to prophesy. All they do is talk about what has already been talked about. They glorify themselves as prophets, seers, and revelators in name only.
Have there been any prophecies in your lifetime bc?
Quite a few, if you understand the scriptural definition of prophecy.
What bcspace means is that a verse from Revelation should be used as a proof text that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Therefore, whenever LDS leaders make entirely self-referential statements to the effect that the Church is true, this is "prophecy." So by defining the concept of "prophecy" down to where it is so utterly trivial as to be meaningless, we can say that the Lord still speaks to us today. The oracles of the Lord have nothing insightful, relevant, or substantive to say, but at least they consistently shill for the corporate entity that gives them a paycheck. Or "prophesy," to use the more faith-promoting term.
Darth J wrote:What bcspace means is that a verse from Revelation should be used as a proof text that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Therefore, whenever LDS leaders make entirely self-referential statements to the effect that the Church is true, this is "prophecy." So by defining the concept of "prophecy" down to where it is so utterly trivial as to be meaningless, we can say that the Lord still speaks to us today. The oracles of the Lord have nothing insightful, relevant, or substantive to say, but at least they consistently shill for the corporate entity that gives them a paycheck. Or "prophesy," to use the more faith-promoting term.
Isn't it wonderful? Isn't it marvelous?
I think it much wiser to depend on the definition offered by the dictionary and encyclopedia on what it means to predict the future which is nothing short of prophesying. The Bible does't know what it is talking about by telling people that prophecy is testifying of Jesus. That's just cult garbage that Mormons eat up because they know no one in their church really predicts the future as if they are foreseeing something through divine means.
I will even go so far as to say there are no false prophets in the Mormon church because they don't have prophets of any kind. Now, if their leaders care to start acting like prophets by offering some new prophecies then we can call them prophets and wait to verify their words before calling them false prophets. That's what so-called prophets in the Bible and Book of Mormon did before the people got angry with their crap and stoned them.