malkie wrote:Sorry, I don't see it. In fact, I've seen just the opposite in some cases - people from both sides of the divide seem to agree that generally, firing someone by email is not the best way to do it.
And so, Kevin's support Bradford thread is in bad taste?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
malkie wrote:Sorry, I don't see it. In fact, I've seen just the opposite in some cases - people from both sides of the divide seem to agree that generally, firing someone by email is not the best way to do it.
And so, Kevin's support Bradford thread is in bad taste?
Do you seriously think that Kevin is supporting Bradford simply because the firing of Dan was done by email?
And is this, for you, the most important factor in the whole affair? In other words, you're OK with the firing, just not with the medium?
NOMinal member
Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
malkie wrote: And is this, for you, the most important factor in the whole affair? In other words, you're OK with the firing, just not with the medium?
As I have stated on MDD, journals change direction and with it, they change their editors. And at times their board. But it can be done in a kind way. And this is the way it should have been done with Dan. I think that Dan could have handled a call in, a kind talk about new directions, a thank you for wonderful service, and offered an advisory role on the board. But to have it done by email when he was away and then have the emails leaked, well...something stinks here.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Doctor Scratch wrote:I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the only thing that will shake some sense into them is formal Church discipline: disfellowshipping or excommunication. They won't listen to anything short of that. So I guess the question is: Was the Church more interested in doing this mainly for PR reasons--i.e., so that they could publicly divorce themselves from the "classic-FARMS" rhetoric? Or are they genuinely interested in curtailing the rhetoric?
I don't see what would warrant Church discipline, unless they can be seen to tarnish the good name of the Church, but even then, what would the charge be? Apostasy? I'm not so sure.
More likely, perhaps more scary, is the damage to Dan's academic reputation. I am not sure how BYU works, but I can't imagine his reaction and the reaction of his goon squad bodes well for his post in the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
malkie wrote: by the way, how is your demonstration shaping up? Are you planning to lead it yourself?
One reason for firing someone who is rather well known during the summer is because people are in vacation mode. And they are not in town. The summer is always a good time to fire someone who is known and popular. And to do it by email when that person is not in town or in the country is even better.
Difficult to get people together when they are scattered here and there in the summer. But...something will be done for Dan. It is not over until it is over. Boycott of funds, loss of subscriptions, petitions etc.
... and a demonstration with why me in the van?
Don't go all coy on us now - tell us where and when, and how we should dress etc. What should we write on our placards (and should we ask Dr Shades to check them for spelling, proper English etc)
NOMinal member
Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
why me wrote:Firing dan by email was a disgrace and should be condemned by everyone. However, I can see why the exmormons here are in glee mood because of it. You all think that MI is heading for fall as it changes from apologetics to something more benign.
Keep preachin' it why me.
I won't rest until the the WSJ and WashPost political reporters pick it up and start writing about it in their Mitt stories.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
LDSToronto wrote: I don't see what would warrant Church discipline, unless they can be seen to tarnish the good name of the Church, but even then, what would the charge be? Apostasy? I'm not so sure.
More likely, perhaps more scary, is the damage to Dan's academic reputation. I am not sure how BYU works, but I can't imagine his reaction and the reaction of his goon squad bodes well for his post in the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages.
Is it against the rules to protest a firing by email? And to disagree with it? Those responsible for this behavior of firing someone by email should get the discipline.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
malkie wrote:Sorry, I don't see it. In fact, I've seen just the opposite in some cases - people from both sides of the divide seem to agree that generally, firing someone by email is not the best way to do it.
It may not be the best way to do it, but when you fear the bluster of the firee, it may seem reasonable.
Personally, why didn't he do it by committee, headed by someone like Tommy Monson or one of his direct lieutenants?
Huckelberry said: I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
malkie wrote: And is this, for you, the most important factor in the whole affair? In other words, you're OK with the firing, just not with the medium?
As I have stated on MDD, journals change direction and with it, they change their editors. And at times their board. But it can be done in a kind way. And this is the way it should have been done with Dan. I think that Dan could have handled a call in, a kind talk about new directions, a thank you for wonderful service, and offered an advisory role on the board. But to have it done by email when he was away and then have the emails leaked, well...something stinks here.
There you go again, with the "have the emails leaked"!
Can you come right out and say it clearly and plainly? Do you think that Bradford deliberately leaked the emails to people he knew were unfriendly to the church?
No more innuendo, please. Be clear and specific, and stand behind your "hints".
NOMinal member
Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."