the narrator wrote:Mormon engagement with contemporary Biblical criticism is long overdue.
Not really, it's just the few times it has been attempted it hasn't ended well.
the narrator wrote:Based on a few I do know at BYU--and based on Hamblin's description of Bradford's vision--I have hopes that the MI can and will be doing just that.
I seriously doubt that something styled as the Mormon Studies Review will do any such thing. My impression is that for the most part Mormon Studies isn't interested in the topic. Plus, the kind of training required to do Mormon Studies and the kind of training needed to do Biblical criticism don't overlap much.
Kerry Shirts wrote:Our problem, unfortunately is that we are taught what to think, not how to think in our church. This is not a criticism, it is an observation
Deal with it, Kerry. One question. What does the CHURCH tell you to think about the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3? I'm not talking about what school teachers (Nibley & Gee) have to say but the General Authorities. Have they expounded on those Explanations to your satisfaction?
Aristotle Smith wrote:I seriously doubt that something styled as the Mormon Studies Review will do any such thing. My impression is that for the most part Mormon Studies isn't interested in the topic. Plus, the kind of training required to do Mormon Studies and the kind of training needed to do Biblical criticism don't overlap much.
+1
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
I am pleased that David Bokovoy, Brant Gardner, and Kerry Shirts have joined the discussion over there, because these guys can speak to the advantages of FARMS-past in such a way that the fulminations don't drown out the substance. And I agree with the Doctor, in that if what they are saying is true, there could be more longstanding BYU political clashes that brought this to a head. This is the conflict between Religious Education and other entities on campus with similar areas of interest.
BYU's Department of Religious Education is a funny thing. It employs some folks with subject-specific training in the ancient texts, but it also employs CES types with doctorates in Education and other fields. My sense of the culture of the place was that it could be a political minefield. You had people in Religious Education who would openly denigrate Hugh Nibley, and who would run down the importance of learning ancient languages on the grounds that "the modern revelations were given in English." I wonder if this development does not represent the final triumph of CES and Religious Education over the rogue element of FARMS.
Could it be that the chess match Daniel Peterson and others were caught up in extended much earlier than they imagined? The study of religion has always been a sensitive issue at BYU. BYU has no proper department of Religious Studies. As a church with a lay ministry, it has no apparent need for a seminary. Indeed, the involvement of administrators in the Community of Christ with seminary training back in the 50s led to that church's liberalization and hemorrhaging of members, so the LDS Church wants nothing to do with that.
Nibley and those he inspired filled a much-needed gap in the Church's intellectual scene for decades. They gave a certain intellectual and academic credibility to a Church that wanted almost nothing to do with the traditional academic religious training of Christendom. Why? Because it predictably leads to people who no longer literally believe in the things they are teaching. Nibley inspired Midgley partly because he offered a learned yet robust and spirited alternative to the flaccid intellectualizing and arid theorizing of the theologians.
What has the alternative generally been? Look at CES and judge for yourselves. If there has been any real intellectual excitement in BYU religious publications, speaking for myself here, it has generally come out of FARMS and, to a lesser extent, BYU Studies. After that you had to go to Sunstone and Dialogue, but with the added risk (for the TBM) that you would be getting a lot of negative criticism of the Church. I am afraid that I have to agree with David, Kerry, and Brant wholeheartedly. There was a long cold war here that suddenly ended. CES and BYU Religious Education won, and that victory presents the Maxwell Institute that remains a real challenge.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
I think these guys have it right, it's bigger than just apologetics, there will no longer be a place for any serious analysis of scripture from a Mormon perspective.
I predict FAIR and the like will take up the slack and/or the classic FARMers will start a new and independent organization.
I think these guys have it right, it's bigger than just apologetics, there will no longer be a place for any serious analysis of scripture from a Mormon perspective.
I predict FAIR and the like will take up the slack and/or the classic FARMers will start a new and independent organization.
And the first order of business to counter their lying organization will be to shove the Explanations of Facismile No. 3 up their holy holes and laugh like hell! Mormons are liars and have belittled the black race long enough. Anubis is not going to put up with that crap.
I think these guys have it right, it's bigger than just apologetics, there will no longer be a place for any serious analysis of scripture from a Mormon perspective.
I predict FAIR and the like will take up the slack and/or the classic FARMers will start a new and independent organization.
I predict LDS Inc will stamp out such organizations.
New name: Boaz The most viewed "ignored" poster in Shady Acres® !
Kishkumen wrote:Nibley and those he inspired filled a much-needed gap in the Church's intellectual scene for decades. They gave a certain intellectual and academic credibility to a Church that wanted almost nothing to do with the traditional academic religious training of Christendom. Why? Because it predictably leads to people who no longer literally believe in the things they are teaching. Nibley inspired Midgley partly because he offered a learned yet robust and spirited alternative to the flaccid intellectualizing and arid theorizing of the theologians.
This paragraph has substantially profound thoughts. If one really thinks about it, I believe this gives you an entrance into why so many are attracted to apologetics and subsequently the practice of apologetics.
bcspace wrote:I predict FAIR and the like will take up the slack and/or the classic FARMers will start a new and independent organization.
The donor pool is out there for the old guard to tap, in order to create the Rise of the Third FARMS.
I think this new journal may end up being a publication that would both solicit and publish the scholarly works of David Bokovoy. My guess is that you what won't see are articles which would also make for fascinating Sunstone presentations. I am looking forward to reading choice quotes from the new journal on this forum.
Polygamy-Porter wrote:I predict LDS Inc will stamp out such organizations.
You're right about that. Under pain of disfellowship and temple recommends being yanks -- those bastards on the other board are about to feel the wrath of the General Authorities! Bill Hamblin is a skunk and I hope he's beheaded by the church guillotine. May the evil spirits of perdition rise up and spook him in his sleep, tonight.
