Why Mormons can't Pray

[_madeleine]

Of course the Ascension is taught, as is Pentecost, and the gathering of the disciples after the Ascension.

Both the Ascension and Pentecost are major holy days on the liturgical calendars of Christian religions.

Celebrating a holiday in honor of an event is not the same as teaching the gospel with accomplished competence such that people know precisely how it is done and only their faith alone can hinder them.

No church today teaches the gospel of Jesus Christ such that its members are regularly visited of the Promise of the Father whereby the name of Jesus Christ is put upon them by the power of the Holy Ghost in the actual baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost whereby they all come to know God by being made partakers of his power and are fitted to a higher state of existence with a renewed heart, might, mind and strength capable of enduring to the end having forsaken the world to cleave unto Christ 24/7 being taught of God daily and doing the will of the Father in his kingdom here upon the earth, even Zion.

Love for you to point one out that does.

Well, I'll have to disagree with you there. I found all those things.

Daily Mass, alone, where all present receive the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. We are renewed in Him. Mass always has scripture readings, which is the best teacher of God's will.

Here are today's reading:

Reading 1 Am 7:10-17
Amaziah, the priest of Bethel, sent word to Jeroboam,
king of Israel:
"Amos has conspired against you here within Israel;
the country cannot endure all his words.
For this is what Amos says:
Jeroboam shall die by the sword,
and Israel shall surely be exiled from its land."

To Amos, Amaziah said:
"Off with you, visionary, flee to the land of Judah!
There earn your bread by prophesying,
but never again prophesy in Bethel;
for it is the king's sanctuary and a royal temple."
Amos answered Amaziah, "I was no prophet,
nor have I belonged to a company of prophets;
I was a shepherd and a dresser of sycamores.
The LORD took me from following the flock, and said to me,
'Go, prophesy to my people Israel.'
Now hear the word of the LORD!"

You say: prophesy not against Israel,
preach not against the house of Isaac.
Now thus says the LORD:
Your wife shall be made a harlot in the city,
and your sons and daughters shall fall by the sword;
Your land shall be divided by measuring line,
and you yourself shall die in an unclean land;
Israel shall be exiled far from its land.

Responsorial Psalm Ps 19:8, 9, 10, 11 (the Psalms are always sung)

R. (10cd) The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just. (response is given by the congregation)

The law of the LORD is perfect,
refreshing the soul;
The decree of the LORD is trustworthy,
giving wisdom to the simple.

R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.

The precepts of the LORD are right,
rejoicing the heart;
The command of the LORD is clear,
enlightening the eye.

R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.

The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever;
The ordinances of the LORD are true,
all of them just.

R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.

They are more precious than gold,
than a heap of purest gold;
Sweeter also than syrup
or honey from the comb.

R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.

Gospel Mt 9:1-8

After entering a boat, Jesus made the crossing, and came into his own town.
And there people brought to him a paralytic lying on a stretcher.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic,
"Courage, child, your sins are forgiven."
At that, some of the scribes said to themselves,
"This man is blaspheming."
Jesus knew what they were thinking, and said,
"Why do you harbor evil thoughts?
Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,'
or to say, 'Rise and walk?'
But that you may know that the Son of Man
has authority on earth to forgive sins?"
he then said to the paralytic,
"Rise, pick up your stretcher, and go home."
He rose and went home.
When the crowds saw this they were struck with awe
and glorified God who had given such authority to men.

[_Nightlion]

Celebrating a holiday in honor of an event is not the same as teaching the gospel with accomplished competence such that people know precisely how it is done and only their faith alone can hinder them.

No church today teaches the gospel of Jesus Christ such that its members are regularly visited of the Promise of the Father whereby the name of Jesus Christ is put upon them by the power of the Holy Ghost in the actual baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost whereby they all come to know God by being made partakers of his power and are fitted to a higher state of existence with a renewed heart, might, mind and strength capable of enduring to the end having forsaken the world to cleave unto Christ 24/7 being taught of God daily and doing the will of the Father in his kingdom here upon the earth, even Zion.

Love for you to point one out that does.

Well, I'll have to disagree with you there. I found all those things.

Daily Mass, alone, where all present receive the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. We are renewed in Him. Mass always has scripture readings, which is the best teacher of God's will.

Here are today's reading:

Reading 1 Am 7:10-17
Amaziah, the priest of Bethel, sent word to Jeroboam,
king of Israel:
"Amos has conspired against you here within Israel;
the country cannot endure all his words.
For this is what Amos says:
Jeroboam shall die by the sword,
and Israel shall surely be exiled from its land."

To Amos, Amaziah said:
"Off with you, visionary, flee to the land of Judah!
There earn your bread by prophesying,
but never again prophesy in Bethel;
for it is the king's sanctuary and a royal temple."
Amos answered Amaziah, "I was no prophet,
nor have I belonged to a company of prophets;
I was a shepherd and a dresser of sycamores.
The LORD took me from following the flock, and said to me,
'Go, prophesy to my people Israel.'
Now hear the word of the LORD!"

You say: prophesy not against Israel,
preach not against the house of Isaac.
Now thus says the LORD:
Your wife shall be made a harlot in the city,
and your sons and daughters shall fall by the sword;
Your land shall be divided by measuring line,
and you yourself shall die in an unclean land;
Israel shall be exiled far from its land.

Responsorial Psalm Ps 19:8, 9, 10, 11 (the Psalms are always sung)

R. (10cd) The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just. (response is given by the congregation)

The law of the LORD is perfect,
refreshing the soul;
The decree of the LORD is trustworthy,
giving wisdom to the simple.

R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.

The precepts of the LORD are right,
rejoicing the heart;
The command of the LORD is clear,
enlightening the eye.

R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.

The fear of the LORD is pure,
enduring forever;
The ordinances of the LORD are true,
all of them just.

R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.

They are more precious than gold,
than a heap of purest gold;
Sweeter also than syrup
or honey from the comb.

R. The judgments of the Lord are true, and all of them are just.

Gospel Mt 9:1-8

After entering a boat, Jesus made the crossing, and came into his own town.
And there people brought to him a paralytic lying on a stretcher.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic,
"Courage, child, your sins are forgiven."
At that, some of the scribes said to themselves,
"This man is blaspheming."
Jesus knew what they were thinking, and said,
"Why do you harbor evil thoughts?
Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,'
or to say, 'Rise and walk?'
But that you may know that the Son of Man
has authority on earth to forgive sins?"
he then said to the paralytic,
"Rise, pick up your stretcher, and go home."
He rose and went home.
When the crowds saw this they were struck with awe
and glorified God who had given such authority to men.

This accounts for Zion and the kingdom of God on earth where the will of the Father is done? I am more concerned with the actualization of the power thereof and not the vain forms of liturgy. I do not see the participation of God herein, where we are taught of God and lead in the heart and mind to furbish our souls to enable us to stand with the great and see eye to eye with all saints.

If that does it for you. okay.

[_madeleine]

This accounts for Zion and the kingdom of God on earth where the will of the Father is done? I am more concerned with the actualization of the power thereof and not the vain forms of liturgy. I do not see the participation of God herein, where we are taught of God and lead in the heart and mind to furbish our souls to enable us to stand with the great and see eye to eye with all saints.

If that does it for you. okay.

It is but a piece, but not the whole. '-urgy' = doing. Liturgy is the public work of the people done of behalf of the people.

I don't have a belief that God works around us. God works through us, in our everyday lives. Right where we are, now. Some are engaged in very specific ministries. All Christians are called to live for God. I agree it is more difficult for people to know the meaning of faith, hope, charity and prayer in a secular world. But, it isn't lost, and many people have not given up. So don't despair! :)

Get out and join in the ministries. They aren't here at your computer. You don't have to go to Africa.

http://www.babelgum.com/113782/greater- ... g-aids.htm

[_Nightlion]

It is but a piece, but not the whole. '-urgy' = doing. Liturgy is the public work of the people done of behalf of the people.

I don't have a belief that God works around us. God works through us, in our everyday lives. Right where we are, now. Some are engaged in very specific ministries. All Christians are called to live for God. I agree it is more difficult for people to know the meaning of faith, hope, charity and prayer in a secular world. But, it isn't lost, and many people have not given up. So don't despair! :)

Get out and join in the ministries. They aren't here at your computer. You don't have to go to Africa.

http://www.babelgum.com/113782/greater- ... g-aids.htm

I get you. I think you gave me an important insight. Thanks

[_Jeneum]

So how about a demonstration, or a primer on how one is supposed to pray, Nightlion?

[_harmony]

I don't have a belief that God works around us. God works through us, in our everyday lives. Right where we are, now.

I like this. I would add: even when we don't know it, or acknowledge it.

[_Nightlion]

I don't have a belief that God works around us. God works through us, in our everyday lives. Right where we are, now.

I like this. I would add: even when we don't know it, or acknowledge it.

I was truly touched by Madaleine's links and it got me to remember the good will of man. Fighting for the the supremacy of the will of God you tend to wax militant against the whole world. I am humbled. Feeling a degree of charity I had lost for a good while. Kinda nice. I needed it because I ramped up my campaign and was stomping in my fury in yonder gardens.

[_just me]

madeleine, I really enjoyed your comments.

[_madeleine]

It is but a piece, but not the whole. '-urgy' = doing. Liturgy is the public work of the people done of behalf of the people.

I don't have a belief that God works around us. God works through us, in our everyday lives. Right where we are, now. Some are engaged in very specific ministries. All Christians are called to live for God. I agree it is more difficult for people to know the meaning of faith, hope, charity and prayer in a secular world. But, it isn't lost, and many people have not given up. So don't despair! :)

Get out and join in the ministries. They aren't here at your computer. You don't have to go to Africa.

http://www.babelgum.com/113782/greater- ... g-aids.htm

I get you. I think you gave me an important insight. Thanks

You're welcome, but I think the insight came from that special person, Rose.

I was also skimming this evening a document I haven't read for a while, that is focused on the "Christian event". I think perhaps your idea of "gospel accomplishement" is imbedded in this event.

The underlying theme, of what I've been reading, is Jesus Christ is the Christian Event (of course). Reality is a Person, Jesus Christ. Our encounter with Jesus Christ is what it means to live in reality. If we are living according to our encounter, then we are living as our true selves. We have found true freedom.

There are distractions. Reductions of faith to ideaologies, moralisms, emotionalism, etc.

It is possible to live "this way", that is, living our encounter with Reality. Jesus does not call us to stand and watch. To send money and call it good. He calls us to step into the need of the other person. To understand, the "gaze of Christ", and look on all with that same gaze.

Faith, hope, charity are the three virtues of a Christian life. Charity understood as "caritas", which means love; agape; unlimited loving-kindness towards all others. Our model is Christ Himself.

Prayer is the means by which we come to know the will of God. Faith, hope and charity, require prayer, otherwise, we risk acting for reasons of self, rather than acting in self-sacrifice. At which point, God is no longer at the center, instead we place ourselves at the center.

Last, I love this from Spe Salvi:

33. Saint Augustine, in a homily on the First Letter of John, describes very beautifully the intimate relationship between prayer and hope. He defines prayer as an exercise of desire. Man was created for greatness—for God himself; he was created to be filled by God. But his heart is too small for the greatness to which it is destined. It must be stretched. “By delaying [his gift], God strengthens our desire; through desire he enlarges our soul and by expanding it he increases its capacity [for receiving him]”. Augustine refers to Saint Paul, who speaks of himself as straining forward to the things that are to come (cf. Phil 3:13). He then uses a very beautiful image to describe this process of enlargement and preparation of the human heart. “Suppose that God wishes to fill you with honey [a symbol of God's tenderness and goodness]; but if you are full of vinegar, where will you put the honey?” The vessel, that is your heart, must first be enlarged and then cleansed, freed from the vinegar and its taste. This requires hard work and is painful, but in this way alone do we become suited to that for which we are destined[26]. Even if Augustine speaks directly only of our capacity for God, it is nevertheless clear that through this effort by which we are freed from vinegar and the taste of vinegar, not only are we made free for God, but we also become open to others. It is only by becoming children of God, that we can be with our common Father. To pray is not to step outside history and withdraw to our own private corner of happiness. When we pray properly we undergo a process of inner purification which opens us up to God and thus to our fellow human beings as well. In prayer we must learn what we can truly ask of God—what is worthy of God. We must learn that we cannot pray against others. We must learn that we cannot ask for the superficial and comfortable things that we desire at this moment—that meagre, misplaced hope that leads us away from God. We must learn to purify our desires and our hopes. We must free ourselves from the hidden lies with which we deceive ourselves. God sees through them, and when we come before God, we too are forced to recognize them. “But who can discern his errors? Clear me from hidden faults” prays the Psalmist (Ps 19:12 [18:13]). Failure to recognize my guilt, the illusion of my innocence, does not justify me and does not save me, because I am culpable for the numbness of my conscience and my incapacity to recognize the evil in me for what it is. If God does not exist, perhaps I have to seek refuge in these lies, because there is no one who can forgive me; no one who is the true criterion. Yet my encounter with God awakens my conscience in such a way that it no longer aims at self-justification, and is no longer a mere reflection of me and those of my contemporaries who shape my thinking, but it becomes a capacity for listening to the Good itself.

-----

Ok then, I didn't mean to wax all that long. Not trying to be preachy, just throwing my thoughts out there.

Have a good evening. :-)

[_zeezrom]

A rote prayer is not a prayer.

For 11 years we prayed at our bed every night. I secretely did not enjoy it, ever. I spent all my brain power on trying to think of something new to say besides asking for Him to alleviate the suffering. This was the first thing to go after changing our beliefs.