On the other hand, says historian D. Michael Quinn, who is working on a book about the LDS Church’s finances and businesses
Such a bad year for Daniel & Co.!!
Just when Dan could really use an LDS Inc funded polemic platform like MI to launch full mo'jehad ad-hominem on Quinn, Dan finds himself alone, weaponless, and with almost no audience.
Yeah, Quinn's been talking about that book for a while now, but he's also said not to expect it all that soon. Last I heard he won't be done writing it until at least next year, and he's somewhat notorious for missing deadlines. So it's definitely not going to come out in time to affect the election this year or anything.
I'm active LDS, a believer, but I have always been bothered by the fact that, since the mid-90's or so, GAs seem to be getting paid a lot of money. Some of the Twelve, for example...some were wealthy, or at least well off, at the time of their calls; others, however, were not. Elders Holland and Packer were educators, for example, but Elder Holland has a very nice up-market vacation home in Hobble Creek (I assume it is his vacation home, it may be it is his primary residence), and I have seen Elder Packer's compound in the south valley. Pres. Monson was an advertising exec for Deseret News at the time of his call...hardly a highly paid position, so I doubt he came to the Twelve with any money, also considering he'd spent three years before as a mission prez in Canada. But today he appears to be a fairly wealthy man. I've heard he has a vacation home in Washington County, and quite a spread of land, home, etc., in Salt Lake.
Where did the money come from for all of this? There is not a single one of the Twelve you would characterize as living modestly, the way, say, Elder McConkie always lived, or Prez Kimball, Joseph Fielding Smith...all those old guys. They really did live modestly, and they never had much money. But not so today. This modest "stipend" we are supposed to believe they receive? How much is this really, how much are they getting paid? And why isn't this information available to us, tithe paying members? When we go into tithing settlement every year, we basically declare how much money we made in the year before. Why doesn't the church disclose to us how much GAs are paid? Are they hiding something? Would it be a cause for embarrassment?
RockSlider wrote:A real Christian church would tend towards a just in the black balance ... giving all surplus to the poor and needy.
Which is the initial idealism of the LDS. When did they lose that?
Is this a joke? I do believe that the vatican has a huge cache of wealth in the vatican. Time to sell it and give the money to the poor. The mall has created many jobs and helped to create a more vibrant community. Many people now have jobs, some income and do not need catholic soup kitchens. I say a good job at LDS realism.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
kjones wrote:I'm active LDS, a believer, but I have always been bothered by the fact that, since the mid-90's or so, GAs seem to be getting paid a lot of money. Some of the Twelve, for example...some were wealthy, or at least well off, at the time of their calls; others, however, were not. Elders Holland and Packer were educators, for example, but Elder Holland has a very nice up-market vacation home in Hobble Creek (I assume it is his vacation home, it may be it is his primary residence), and I have seen Elder Packer's compound in the south valley. Pres. Monson was an advertising exec for Deseret News at the time of his call...hardly a highly paid position, so I doubt he came to the Twelve with any money, also considering he'd spent three years before as a mission prez in Canada. But today he appears to be a fairly wealthy man. I've heard he has a vacation home in Washington County, and quite a spread of land, home, etc., in Salt Lake.
Where did the money come from for all of this? There is not a single one of the Twelve you would characterize as living modestly, the way, say, Elder McConkie always lived, or Prez Kimball, Joseph Fielding Smith...all those old guys. They really did live modestly, and they never had much money. But not so today. This modest "stipend" we are supposed to believe they receive? How much is this really, how much are they getting paid? And why isn't this information available to us, tithe paying members? When we go into tithing settlement every year, we basically declare how much money we made in the year before. Why doesn't the church disclose to us how much GAs are paid? Are they hiding something? Would it be a cause for embarrassment?
Kjones, I can only say that if the financial information were in any way faith promoting they would be published before you could say "oe, two, three - let's shop".
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
DrW wrote: The only miracle involved is the miracle of compound interest.
If I am a young person and need a summer job, I have a mall to hire me. If I am a senior citizen in need of work, I have a mall to hire me. And if I am unemployed, I have a mall to hire me. I say that the church did a wonderful job in providing a place for people to pay taxes and gain dignity.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
kjones wrote: ... And why isn't this information available to us, tithe paying members?
Because that information is not necessary to you.
kjones wrote: When we go into tithing settlement every year, we basically declare how much money we made in the year before. Why doesn't the church disclose to us how much GAs are paid?
Because that information is not necessary to you. Also, it might damage weak testimonies, so it would be irresponsible to publicize it.
kjones wrote:Are they hiding something? Would it be a cause for embarrassment?
That information is not necessary to you either. But you can be confident that the First Presidency will not lead the Church astray.
I am astonished that I, a nevermo, know the answers to these questions and you do not.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
DrW wrote: The only miracle involved is the miracle of compound interest.
If I am a young person and need a summer job, I have a mall to hire me. If I am a senior citizen in need of work, I have a mall to hire me. And if I am unemployed, I have a mall to hire me. I say that the church did a wonderful job in providing a place for people to pay taxes and gain dignity.
If you live in Salt Lake City. This may surprise you, but there is more population outside Salt Lake City than resides within it....
If you were a young person in Africa with no food for you, your wife or your children, would you still feel the same?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote: Kjones, I can only say that if the financial information were in any way faith promoting they would be published before you could say "oe, two, three - let's shop".
You and the others would be judging the church very harshly if they were losing money. I could just hear it now: how could god's church lose money? Ha, ha...how could god's servants be losing millions etc.
But the church is making good investments in property.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith