My Testimony.

[_karl61]

Ray - thanks for sharing.

[_RockSlider]

Ray you should re-baptize and go back.

[_Fence Sitter]

Thanks Ray.

Like you I find no totally satisfactory explanation of how Joesph Smith created the Book of Mormon. Unlike you I do not believe that means it was divine but then I am an agnostic. I can understand how one who still believes in a God might see his influence in the Book of Mormon.

Would you care to share your view of the LDS church as it now stands? Do you believe Monson to be a prophet of God?

[_Kevin Graham]

Who cares?

Not to be rude, but seriously. I never understood a need to state one's personal beliefs openly like this. If it was intended to help some of us understand what's going on with Ray's thinking, well it only confused me more. If it was intended to give Ray some attention and/or invoke good feelings for him, well it probably worked.

I notice Ray didn't say he has a testimony that Joseph Smith produced the Book of Mormon via translating ancient plates as he claimed. I think it is obvious even to Ray that Joseph Smith could not translate ancient records as he claimed, though I could be wrong. Saying the Book of Mormon is inspired of God can mean a lot of things. Anything that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside can be attributed to God if you're the kind of person who believes all good things ultimately come from God. There is nothing uniquely "good" about the Book of Mormon as it is mostly a knock-off from the Bible, and much of it is incoherent gibberish that appears inspired to those who are already predisposed to find inspiration therein. And why should Ray's biased view of the Book of Mormon matter to me when he's willing to twist logic beyond the breaking point in order to defend disgusting individuals like Schryver and Peterson?

But to each their own. Personally I don't care if you want to worship God, Joseph Smith or Captain Crunch. How is that supposed to have an effect on what I know to be true and false?

I'm only interested in what is true and people believing in false things don't make them true no matter how or how often they share their beliefs.

[_Kishkumen]

I find the whole thing confused. I appreciate his witness of the Book of Mormon, but his witness of the LDS Church as the Kingdom of God, which will overtake all other kingdoms, as a statement understood in the context of his insistence that he is an ex-Mormon who has no intention of rejoining is, simply put, bizarre. At the very least it calls for some kind of explanation of the apparent contradiction.

[_Kishkumen]

Ray,

I think it's awesome that you bore your testimony right here on Mormon Discussions. And the way you responded to Dr. Cam's insult juxtaposed with a song link, ignoring the insult while enjoying the song? Completely classy.

Amen, brotha.

Don

I think Ray gave a classy response to Cam.

But I see nothing particularly daunting about posting an LDS testimony on MDB. It is a free speech zone, and there are a number of participants on the board who are sympathetic to his views.

[_Chap]

Who cares?

....
I'm only interested in what is true and people believing in false things don't make them true no matter how or how often they share their beliefs.

And you know what? People getting weepy when they 'testify' to something or saying that they would say the same thing if they were about to die does nothing whatsoever to add to the likelihood that the thing testified to is true.

Basically Ray's testimony is about as significant to the rest of us as him deciding to 'like' the Book of Mormon on Facebook.

[_Called2Swerve]

Let me reaffirm my testimony here, on Mormon Discussions, once and for all to read.

I am not an active member of the Flat Earth Society. I am not currently listed as a member, having withdrawn my membership in 1984.

Regardless of photographic evidence and scientific speculation, I affirm that our understanding of what may be spherical is not fully known or understood by man. What we may think as being "up" may in fact be "down", just as what we may think is "flat" may be "round".

While I may not believe in the conventional sense, I believe there is great wisdom in the belief of a flat earth. It speaks to me as it does others that all mankind is on this level playing field, meaning that God loves all of his children equally. Perhaps I could not withstand the ridicule and left the FES, but I believe their principals are true regardless of NASA's attempts to ridicule our beliefs.

Amen.

[_keithb]

Who cares?

....
I'm only interested in what is true and people believing in false things don't make them true no matter how or how often they share their beliefs.

And you know what? People getting weepy when they 'testify' to something or saying that they would say the same thing if they were about to die does nothing whatsoever to add to the likelihood that the thing testified to is true.

Basically Ray's testimony is about as significant to the rest of us as him deciding to 'like' the Book of Mormon on Facebook.

+1

As an interesting corollary, take Ray's entire testimony and reshape it to one about the Muslim religion. Does Ray believing in that religion (or any religion) or not believing in it have any effect whatsoever on whether the religion is true?

I would argue no. In fact, the only thing that Ray did was to testify that HE believes that the Mormon religion is true. I don't care. I don't see why anyone else should either.

If Ray testified that space aliens had kidnapped him last night and probed his special regions, I similarly wouldn't care. It doesn't mean that it happened, or even that it's plausible. It would just mean that Ray believes that it happened (or purports to believe rather). Well, whatever.

[_Yoda]

Ray you should re-baptize and go back.

After reading Ray's testimony, I feel the same way.

Ray, would you consider going back to Church? I think that you would be welcomed back if you decided to attend again.

After all of your experiences that you have related about your time as a bishop, I can tell you that you are one of the best bishops I have ever heard of.