Kids who die before age 8 DON'T automatically go to the C.K.

[_beastie]

Perhaps the OP should have explained that it is alluding to the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, not the Church of Tobin.

This whole thing is a fictitious crock to start with. Just because you check out of this life early (say at the fetus stage), does not mean you go to the CK, are exalted, pass Go and collect $200, and all that non-sense. You will be tested and tried like everyone else in the next life. There are no automatic passes. The purpose of this stage in our existence is merely to obtain a mortal body. That's it. Becoming a Celestial Being is an entirely different matter.

Nope. God told the Prophet Joseph Smith the exact opposite of what you are saying.

D&C 137:10

And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.

I'm sure Tobin will be able to explain how your interpretation of this scripture is "dim".

[_Tobin]

Don't be ridiculous. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. They will be free to choose to follow God like anyone else. They will be resurrected, just like we all will. Your dim understanding of Mormon teachings notwithstanding.

If you are actually asserting that it is an LDS teaching that children who die prior to the age of 8 will have to earn the CK like everyone else, please prove it by citing actual LDS sources. And that does not include yahoos like you on the internet. I mean sources from the church itself, like the one I just cited.

After all, if my understanding of LDS teachings is so dim, this should be easy to do.

Easily done. See the quotes below. Not once do they say everyone, but fetuses. Everyone must be tested and tried. Period. So, stop pretending you understand a thing about Mormonism and spouting your non-sense.

D&C 101:4-5

4 Therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son.
5 For all those who will not endure chastening, but deny me, cannot be sanctified.

Joseph Smith History of the Church, 3:379-381

When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses

Brigham Young

All intelligent beings who are crowned with crowns of glory, immortality, and eternal lives must pass through every ordeal appointed for intelligent beings to pass through, to gain their glory and exaltation. Every calamity that can come upon mortal beings will be suffered to come upon the few, to prepare them to enjoy the presence of the Lord. If we obtain the glory that Abraham obtained, we must do so by the same means that he did. If we are ever prepared to enjoy the society of Enoch, Noah, Melchizedek, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or of their faithful children, and of the faithful Prophets and Apostles, we must pass through the same experience, and gain the knowledge, intelligence, and endowments that will prepare us to enter into the celestial kingdom of our Father and God. How many of the Latter-day Saints will endure all these things, and be prepared to enjoy the presence of the Father and the Son? You can answer that question at your leisure. Every trial and experience you have passed through is necessary for your salvation. (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.345)

John Taylor

Nevertheless, as I have said, it is necessary that we pass through certain ordeals, and that we be tried. But why is it that we should be tried? There is just the same necessity for it now that there was in former times. I heard the Prophet Joseph say, in speaking to the Twelve on one occasion: "You will have all kinds of trials to pass through. And it is quite as necessary for you to be tried as it was for Abraham and other men of God, and (said he) God will feel after you, and He will take hold of you and wrench your very heart strings, and if you cannot stand it you will not be fit for an inheritance in the Celestial Kingdom of God." Some people have wondered why so many of the Twelve fell away. God tries people according to the position they occupy. [Journal of Discourses, 24:197]

I speak of these things to show how men are to be tried. I heard Joseph Smith say--and I presume Brother Snow heard him also--in preaching to the Twelve in Nauvoo, that the Lord would get hold of their heart strings and wrench them, and that they would have to be tried as Abraham was tried. Well, some of the Twelve could not stand it. They faltered and fell by the way. It was not everybody that could stand what Abraham stood. And Joseph said that if God had known any other way whereby he could have touched Abraham's feelings more acutely and more keenly he would have done so. [Journal of Discourses, 24:264]

George Q. Cannon

We have got to be watchful, for I tell you God has sent us here to test us and to prove us. We were true in keeping our first estate. The people that are here today stood loyally by God and by Jesus, and they did not flinch. If you had flinched then, you would not be here with the Priesthood upon you. The evidence that you were loyal, that you were true and that you did not waver is to be found in the fact that you have received the Gospel and the everlasting Priesthood. Now you are in your second estate, and you are going to be tested again. Will you be true and loyal to God with the curtain drawn between you and Him, shut out from His presence, and in the midst of darkness and temptation, with Satan and his invisible hosts all around you, bringing all manner of evil influences to bear upon you? The men and the women that will be loyal under these circumstances God will exalt, because it will be the highest test to which they can be subjected. (Gospel Truth, 1:7)

and there are many more. Everyone must be tested and tried even as Abraham.

[_Tobin]

Has Tobin read Moroni chapter 8?

Yes, I've read Moroni chapter 8.

[_beastie]

I was taught that children who died before the age of 8 had already proven their faith in the pre-existence, and that is why they were "chosen" to go to bodies that would die before the age of 8 (or would be sent to bodies of mentally handicapped individuals.) This teaching is consistent with the already cited D&C scripture, which is quite clear.

[_Yoda]

...

Don't be ridiculous. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. They will be free to choose to follow God like anyone else. They will be resurrected, just like we all will. Your dim understanding of Mormon teachings notwithstanding.

It is your understanding of Mormon teachings which is dim.

From Beastie's quote which is directly from LDS.org:

The question may arise with me and with you—“Why has the Lord taken away my children?” But that is not for me to tell, because I do not know; it is in the hands of the Lord, and it has been so from the creation of the world all the way down. Children are taken away in their infancy, and they go to the spirit world. They come here and fulfil the object of their coming, that is, they tabernacle in the flesh. They come to receive a probation and an inheritance on the earth; they obtain a body, or tabernacle, and that tabernacle will be preserved for them, and in the morning of the resurrection the spirits and bodies will be reunited, and as here we find children of various ages in a family, from the infant at the mother’s breast to manhood, so will it be in the family organization in the celestial world. Our children will be restored to us as they are laid down if we, their parents, keep the faith and prove ourselves worthy to obtain eternal life; and if we do not so prove ourselves our children will still be preserved, and will inherit celestial glory.

I have been a member of the Church all my life, and have always been taught that infants who die before the age of accountability (age 8) automatically go to the Celestial Kingdom. These children were choice above all other spirits in the pre-existence , and all they had to do to receive their Celestial glory was to obtain a body.

[_Tobin]

I was taught that children who died before the age of 8 had already proven their faith in the pre-existence, and that is why they were "chosen" to go to bodies that would die before the age of 8 (or would be sent to bodies of mentally handicapped individuals.) This teaching is consistent with the already cited D&C scripture, which is quite clear.

I understand what you may have been taught, and it is non-sense. Otherwise, we should just abort all fetuses. We'd auto-magically save entire generations if that were true. Forget baptism for the dead. Abortion is a sure way to save people.

[_beastie]

Oh my word! False doctrine is being taught in General Conference.

Because all children who die before the age of accountability are pure, innocent, and wholly sin-free, they are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven (see D&C 137:10; Mosiah 3:18).

The Special Status of Children
MERLIN R. LYBBERT
April 1998 General Conference

http://www.LDS.org/general-conference/1 ... n?lang=eng

My goodness, if only he had checked with Tobin first. It's a shame the church allows GAs to have such a dim understanding of LDS teachings.

[_Chap]

Do you think Tobin is a Nightlion sock puppet? I mean, both of them are the only person who really understands Mormonism.

[_beastie]

I was taught that children who died before the age of 8 had already proven their faith in the pre-existence, and that is why they were "chosen" to go to bodies that would die before the age of 8 (or would be sent to bodies of mentally handicapped individuals.) This teaching is consistent with the already cited D&C scripture, which is quite clear.

I understand what you may have been taught, and it is non-sense. Otherwise, we should just abort all fetuses. We'd auto-magically save entire generations if that were true. Forget baptism for the dead. Abortion is a sure way to save people.

Whoops. When exmormons have made this criticism, they have been harshly criticized by believers for distorting LDS teachings. Ask Dr. W.

Why do you think you know more than Joseph Smith?

I wonder if kevinsims actually accepts church teachings, or if he is going to follow Tobin in the first steps of apostasy.

[_Darth J]

I was taught that children who died before the age of 8 had already proven their faith in the pre-existence, and that is why they were "chosen" to go to bodies that would die before the age of 8 (or would be sent to bodies of mentally handicapped individuals.) This teaching is consistent with the already cited D&C scripture, which is quite clear.

I understand what you may have been taught, and it is non-sense. Otherwise, we should just abort all fetuses. We'd auto-magically save entire generations if that were true. Forget baptism for the dead. Abortion is a sure way to save people.

Yes, it is.