Are New Order Mormon's just apostates in hiding...?

[_Bob Loblaw]

At times I am tempted to go back to church just so I can quietly sow doubt and lead people to hell.

[_moksha]

Once you trim off the Pharisee does an Apostate remain or are you left with a reasoned beliver?

[_Infymus]

I read the NOM boards and I find them to be very much like my forums, the EMF. The exception being that most of them are still Mormon while on my side, most of them have left. There are people in transition there. There are people who are having the exact same problems Ex-Mormons have with family that is disowning them. It is a big separation between chapel and Internet Mormon. I'm glad the board exists.

If I were the Big Twelve Geriatrics, I'd be scared - and careful.

[_cwald]

I participate at NOM.

I don't feel like I am an apostate...but my SP and my TBM family sure as hell think I am.

I think NOM is just a nice soft landing for people who are transitioning through their faith.

[_thews]

To answer the OP... yes.

[_Cylon]

Okay, do any of the following individually or collectively make me apostate?

1. I refuse to pay tithing as I believe the Church leadership does not disperse the tithes in a manner pleasing to Christ. Instead, those funds go to what I have determined are things that will help the poor and needy.
2. This also means I do not sustain the senior Church leaders.
3. I do not believe in the Temple nor it's rituals.
4. I do not believe the scriptures unique to Mormonism are what they claim to be.
5. I do not believe God interferes in this life in any way other than people having a belief in God helps to lift their spirits or to cope with times of distress.
6. I disagree with the Church's discriminatory practices in relation to women and gays.
7. I believe the Church (senior leadership) deliberately hides elements of its history that it feels are harmful to conversion and retention numbers despite knowing it is being misleading.
8. I do not believe in Prophets. But I do believe some people are smarter than I.
9. I hope for a life after death but don't need to know what it is, preferring instead to try and be a good father, husband, brother, son, neighbour now and face the next life, whatever it is, when I get there.
10. I believe three hours on a Sunday could be better spent working as a volunteer down the old folks home.

Collectively, yeah, they probably do make you an apostate. Keep in mind that I agree with you on all of them, so I'm in the same boat.

As for the OP, I would say yes in most cases, but not all.

[_Cicero]

Okay, do any of the following individually or collectively make me apostate?

1. I refuse to pay tithing as I believe the Church leadership does not disperse the tithes in a manner pleasing to Christ. Instead, those funds go to what I have determined are things that will help the poor and needy.
2. This also means I do not sustain the senior Church leaders.
3. I do not believe in the Temple nor it's rituals.
4. I do not believe the scriptures unique to Mormonism are what they claim to be.
5. I do not believe God interferes in this life in any way other than people having a belief in God helps to lift their spirits or to cope with times of distress.
6. I disagree with the Church's discriminatory practices in relation to women and gays.
7. I believe the Church (senior leadership) deliberately hides elements of its history that it feels are harmful to conversion and retention numbers despite knowing it is being misleading.
8. I do not believe in Prophets. But I do believe some people are smarter than I.
9. I hope for a life after death but don't need to know what it is, preferring instead to try and be a good father, husband, brother, son, neighbour now and face the next life, whatever it is, when I get there.
10. I believe three hours on a Sunday could be better spent working as a volunteer down the old folks home.

Yeah, that pretty much qualifies as apostate, but depending on your bishop and SP they would probably still let you hang around unless you openly express your beliefs to other members. If you don't pay tithing, or openly admit 2,3 or 8 to your bishop then he will take your TR away.

[_cwald]

You are only apostate if you don't pay tithing...and I'm only half joking about that.

[_Cylon]

Okay, do any of the following individually or collectively make me apostate?

1. I refuse to pay tithing as I believe the Church leadership does not disperse the tithes in a manner pleasing to Christ. Instead, those funds go to what I have determined are things that will help the poor and needy.
2. This also means I do not sustain the senior Church leaders.
3. I do not believe in the Temple nor it's rituals.
4. I do not believe the scriptures unique to Mormonism are what they claim to be.
5. I do not believe God interferes in this life in any way other than people having a belief in God helps to lift their spirits or to cope with times of distress.
6. I disagree with the Church's discriminatory practices in relation to women and gays.
7. I believe the Church (senior leadership) deliberately hides elements of its history that it feels are harmful to conversion and retention numbers despite knowing it is being misleading.
8. I do not believe in Prophets. But I do believe some people are smarter than I.
9. I hope for a life after death but don't need to know what it is, preferring instead to try and be a good father, husband, brother, son, neighbour now and face the next life, whatever it is, when I get there.
10. I believe three hours on a Sunday could be better spent working as a volunteer down the old folks home.

Yeah, that pretty much qualifies as apostate, but depending on your bishop and SP they would probably still let you hang around unless you openly express your beliefs to other members. If you don't pay tithing, or openly admit 2,3 or 8 to your bishop then he will take your TR away.

I told my bishop I didn't believe in the church anymore, but didn't really go into much detail, and he didn't ask for my temple recommend back. In fact, he encouraged me to go back to the temple, even when I expressed discomfort with the ceremonies.

[_Cicero]

I told my bishop I didn't believe in the church anymore, but didn't really go into much detail, and he didn't ask for my temple recommend back. In fact, he encouraged me to go back to the temple, even when I expressed discomfort with the ceremonies.

I bolded the key words. The details are very important. I think if you firmly said that you won't pay tithing or that you don't sustain your local leaders or GAs then he would probably have to take it away.

It sounds like you have an understanding bishop. Consider yourself fortunate.