Which Prophet Was The Last To Know The Truth?

[_son of Ishmael]

How did JFS know that they weren't just brain farts?

I guess if a good Methodist could have a brain fart then so could he

[_son of Ishmael]

"On page 99 of the same volume Joseph F. Smith stated: 'I have NEVER PRETENDED TO NOR DO I PROFESS TO HAVE RECEIVED REVELATIONS.'

How have I never heard of this?

As a member I was certainly lead to believe these men were getting more than 'any good Methodist.' Damn liars.

Maybe when he said that he did not receive revelations he was just talking as a man....

[_son of Ishmael]

Hey, son of Ishmael, what was the date of JFS' testimony? Has that been compared to his GC talks that pre-dated that testimony? I wonder if JFS was willing to tell Congress the mental impressions 'just as an good methodist' after he had proclaimed in GC having received revelations.

The Reed Smoot hearings were from 1904-1907. I am not sure when JFS's testimony was given. It would be interesting to see what kind of comments he made during conferences and talks about him being a prophet

[_Stormy Waters]

The Reed Smoot hearings were from 1904-1907. I am not sure when JFS's testimony was given. It would be interesting to see what kind of comments he made during conferences and talks about him being a prophet

From these two sources it appears to be March 2, 1904

http://signaturebooks.com/2010/10/excer ... -on-trial/
http://probationarystate.blogspot.com/2 ... ny-of.html

[_Shulem]

Let us remember our President, Thomas S. Monson -- beloved prophet, seer, and revelator. Such mighty revelations have been given from the Lord through him. Such amazing predictions and all of them confirmed. He's our prophet, dear. We thank thee O God for a prophet and for miracles.



Paul O

[_sock puppet]

The Reed Smoot hearings were from 1904-1907. I am not sure when JFS's testimony was given. It would be interesting to see what kind of comments he made during conferences and talks about him being a prophet

From these two sources it appears to be March 2, 1904

http://signaturebooks.com/2010/10/excer ... -on-trial/
http://probationarystate.blogspot.com/2 ... ny-of.html

Became an LDS Apostle on 7/1/1866

President Joseph F. Smith explained the pattern of revelation occurred in his life: “As a boy … I would frequently … ask the Lord to show me some marvelous thing, in order that I might receive a testimony. But the Lord withheld marvels from me, and showed me the truth, line upon line … , until He made me to know the truth from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet, and until doubt and fear had been absolutely purged from me. He did not have to send an angel from the heavens to do this, nor did He have to speak with the Trump of an archangel. By the whisperings of the still small voice of the spirit of the living God, He gave to me the testimony I possess. And by this principle and power He will give to all the children of men a knowledge of the truth that will stay with them, and it will make them to know the truth, as God knows it, and to do the will of the Father as Christ does it. And no amount of marvelous manifestations will ever accomplish this” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1900, 40–41).

After 35 years as an apostle, set apart as the 'prophet' on 10/17/1901; sustained as the 'prophet' on 11/10/1901

By 3/2/1904, has "never pretended to nor ... profess[ed] to have received revelations", just "susceptible [to] impressions of the Spirit of the Lord upon [his] mind at any time, just as any good Methodist or any other good church member might be".

The next day (day 3 of the testimony), 3/3/1904:

Mr. Worthington. What was the last revelation that came to the church from the one authorized to give it as the law of the church?
Mr. Smith. Well, according to my best recollection, it must have been about 1882. The purport of the revelation was calling to the apostolate or apostleship two men, who are named in the revelation.
Mr. Worthington. Who was the president through whom that revelation came?
Mr. Smith. President John Taylor.
Mr. Worthington. You say that was the last one?
Mr. Smith. I do not now recall any since then except the manifesto.
Mr. Worthington. Except the manifesto?
Mr. Smith. Yes, except the manifesto.
Mr. Worthington. Then do I understand you to say the only revelation that has come to the church in the last twenty years is the one that says polygamy shall stop?
Mr. Smith. Since 1882?
Mr. Worthington. Yes, since 1882 - twenty-one years.
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir; I think it is.

Heber J Grant and George Teasdale were the two that became apostles in 1882. Of course, others became apostles in the interim (1882-1904), including for example John Taylor's son, John W Taylor, but apparently without the benefit of 'revelation'.

10/3/1918 (at age 80 and just a month before his death): has Vision of the Redemption of the Dead

[_Madison54]

The next day (day 3 of the testimony), 3/3/1904:

Mr. Worthington. What was the last revelation that came to the church from the one authorized to give it as the law of the church?
Mr. Smith. Well, according to my best recollection, it must have been about 1882. The purport of the revelation was calling to the apostolate or apostleship two men, who are named in the revelation.
Mr. Worthington. Who was the president through whom that revelation came?
Mr. Smith. President John Taylor.
Mr. Worthington. You say that was the last one?
Mr. Smith. I do not now recall any since then except the manifesto.
Mr. Worthington. Except the manifesto?
Mr. Smith. Yes, except the manifesto.
Mr. Worthington. Then do I understand you to say the only revelation that has come to the church in the last twenty years is the one that says polygamy shall stop?
Mr. Smith. Since 1882?
Mr. Worthington. Yes, since 1882 - twenty-one years.
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir; I think it is.

Thanks for posting this....it's fascinating to read through.

So....if I'm reading this correctly, Smith is stating that neither Wilford Woodruff nor Lorenzo Snow (the 2 presidents in between him and John Taylor) received any revelations? Wow.

[_Themis]

Does anyone know which church president was most likely the last one to know the true church history (until recently)?

Joseph Smith. All others came after and are converts to the church except when we get to the point that they started to be from children growing up in the church. No later church president was there when Joseph started his religion, so none of them would have been involved in the scam.

[_son of Ishmael]

Does anyone know which church president was most likely the last one to know the true church history (until recently)?

Joseph Smith. All others came after and are converts to the church except when we get to the point that they started to be from children growing up in the church. No later church president was there when Joseph started his religion, so none of them would have been involved in the scam.

I guess to me the bigger questions is what do the leaders know and when did they know it.

[_Themis]

I guess to me the bigger questions is what do the leaders know and when did they know it.

I don't think most know the details much. They are not historians and usually busy doing other things. They are all converts except Joseph, so I think they believed. Self deception really plays an important role even when they may come across information not friendly to the church.