Do Gays Really Get an Asterisk on their Membership Records?

[_Madison54]

one thing that did catch my attention was Schwimmer's claim that the church recently instituted a policy whereby any member that is ever formally disciplined for homosexuality is forever branded with an asterisk on his or her formal membership record, and that any member having such brand is banned for life from any calling involving primary or the youth.

I told my wife that I highly doubted this was true because I thought such a policy would have gotten a lot more negative press (since it essentially equates homosexuality with pedophilia). However, Mormon Stories does not offer any corrections on its website, so I thought I would post this question here to see if anyone else has heard of this.

I can only relate an experience I had regarding this. I stress that I do not know if this is done in every case.

When I served as relief society president (just a few years ago), there was a male primary teacher who was accused of inappropriately touching one of the little boys in his class. This child was the son in a newly baptized family and they quit going to church over this. I only knew about it because the bishop wanted me to work with the mother....get her to forgive and come back to church.

The man was released from teaching primary but that was it.

A year later, this same man was accused of molesting his young stepson (the little boy told the bishop). It then also came out (from his wife, the little boy's mother) that she'd caught her husband with several men in their apartment.

Let me stress emphatically that I do not....absolutely do not believe that if a man is gay he will be a pedophile. I believe there is no connection between the two anymore than when a man is heterosexual and also a pedophile. But in this case, this man was both.

I am still appalled with how the bishop handled this whole thing but I was TBM back then and believed he was inspired. It was basically just swept under the rug and no legal authorities were contacted. The mother and her little boy left the man and moved away.

However, the bishop did tell me that he had to notify SLC about him because his record needed to be permanently "marked" so that no matter where he moved, steps would be taken to avoid this ever happening again.

I do believe that this most likely had more to do with warning others that he is a pedophile and not that he is gay. At least I hope that's the case.

[_bcspace]

However, other language in that section indicates an annotation may be placed on a member's record for any conduct perceived as "threatening the well-being" of other persons or the Church.

And as has been demonstrated, homosexuality carries a host of additional risks such as child abuse. But I think most in leadership limit such annotations to actual incidents of homosexual activity though it's typical to deny a TR for those whose self-identify ala God Loveth His Children.

[_Madison54]

However, other language in that section indicates an annotation may be placed on a member's record for any conduct perceived as "threatening the well-being" of other persons or the Church.

And as has been demonstrated, homosexuality carries a host of additional risks such as child abuse.

This has absolutely not been demonstrated.....good grief! How can you even type such ridiculously stupid sentences?

Gay couples that adopt or have children are not any more likely to abuse children than heterosexual couples. I've had this discussion with a close family member who is gay and I know this is a fact.

[_DarkHelmet]

This has absolutely not been demonstrated.....good grief! How can you even type such ridiculously stupid sentences?

I'm sure he has a whole list of easily debunked studies conducted by the religious right to support his claim. Ironically, the same religious right believes Mormonism is a cult and Joseph Smith was a pedophile.

[_bcspace]

And as has been demonstrated, homosexuality carries a host of additional risks such as child abuse.

This has absolutely not been demonstrated.....good grief!

Sure it has. For example:

The use of illicit drugs and alcohol abuse is also an integral part of the homosexual life-style. This is well documented in the scientific literature.

See, for example, Ethan E. Bickelhaupt, “Alcoholism and Drug Abuse in Gay and Lesbian Persons: A Review of Incidence Studies” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Social Services 2/1 (1995) 5-14; Kim A. Bloomfield, “Comparison of Alcohol Consumption between Lesbians and Heterosexual Women in an Urban Population” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 33/3 (Oct 1993) 257-269; Kurt A. DeBord and Phillip K.Wood, “The relevance of sexual orientation to substance abuse and psychological distress among college students” Journal of College Student Development 39/2 (1998) 157-168; Ryan J. Ellison, Allen B. Downey and Peter H. Duesberg, “HIV as Surrogate Marker for Drug Use: A Re analysis of the San Francisco Men’s Health Study” Genetica 95 (1995) 165-171; Dennis J. Ghindia and Lenore A. Kola, “Co-factors affecting substance abuse among homosexual men: An investigation within a midwestern gay community” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 41/3 (Jul 1996) 167-177;
John L. Martin and Deborah S. Hasin, “Drinking, Alcoholism, and Sexual Behavior in a Cohort of Gay Men” Drugs and Society 5 (1990) 1-2, 49-67; D. Mosbacher, “Alcohol and other drug use in female medical students: a comparison of lesbians and heterosexuals” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Psychotherapy 2/1 (1993) 37-48; Paul M. Roman, “Gay Men, Drinking and Alcoholism” Contemporary Sociology 25/3 (May 1996) 422-423; Christine Flynn Saulnier and Brenda A. Miller, “Drug and alcohol problems: Heterosexual compared to lesbian and bisexual women” Canadian Journal of Human Sexuality 6/3 (1997) 221-231; William F. Skinner and Melanie D. Otis, “Drug and alcohol use among lesbian and gay people in a southern U.S. sample” Journal of Homosexuality 30/3 (1996) 59-92; Ron Stall and James Wiley, “A Comparison of Alcohol and Drug Use Patterns of Homosexual & Heterosexual Men” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 22 (1998) 1-2, 63-73.

Drs Freund and Heasman of the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two sizeable studies and calculated that 32-34% of the offenders against children were homosexual. In cases these two doctors had personally handled, homosexuals accounted for 36% of their 457 pedophiles.

K. Freund, “Pedophilia and heterosexuality vs. homosexuality” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (1984) 193-200. See also K. Freund and R. I. Watson, “The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex offenders against children: an exploratory study,” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 18 (Spring 1992) 34-43.

Even the much used Kinsey report backs this up:

These findings are confirmed by the admissions of homosexuals themselves. The 1948 Kinsey survey found that 37% of gay men and 2% of lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-17-year-olds, and 28% of gay men and 1% of lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-16-year-olds while they themselves were aged 18 or older.1 In 1970 the Kinsey Institute interviewed 565 white gays in San Francisco: 25% of them admitted to having had sex with boys aged 16 or younger while they themselves were at least 21.2 In The Gay Report, 23% of the gays and 6% of the lesbians admitted to sexual interaction with youth less than 16 years of age.3 Abel et al reported similarly that men who molested girls outside their family had averaged 20 victims each; those who molested boys averaged 150 victims each.4

P. H. Gebhard and A. B. Johnson, The Kinsey Data: Marginal Tabulations of the 1938-1963 Interviews Conducted by the Institute for Sex Research (New York: Saunders, 1979).
A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A study of the diversity among men and women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978)
K. Jay and A. Young, The Gay Report (New York: Summit, 1979).


As early as 1972, a coalition of homosexual groups has sought the repeal of age of consent laws, arguing that children as young as 8 years have a right to decide whether they enter into a sexual relationship with an adult.

Reported in George Grant and Mark Horne, Legislating Immorality: The Homosexual Movement Comes Out of the Closet. (Chicago: Moody Press, 1993) 40, 42.


Of course they've become much more circumspect now and pretty much only NAMBLA gets involved in this type of thing. But recall Harvey Milk, a self admitted sex abuser of teen boys.

[_Bob Loblaw]

Rumor has it that they put a next to your name if you're a Democrat.

[_LittleNipper]

So that means that 67-75 percent of pedophilia cases are heterosexual. so a child has a three times better chance of being molested by a heterosexual than a homosexual. With that kind of logic, the church would be better off requiring all primary teachers to be gay.

What you are saying is that there most perverts call themselves herterosexual and the rest say they are gay? The funny thing is that according to one old homosexual poster on this forum, homosexual men wait until the 17 year old boys turns 18 before they actually try to seduce them.

[_Shulem]

The funny thing is that according to one old homosexual poster on this forum, homosexual men wait until the 17 year old boys turns 18 before they actually try to seduce them.

You Christians are such liars. I never implied such a thing. I told you that he chose me as I was dancing on the box at the S4 club. He came from my behind and started dancing heavily into my person. I submitted only because I was attracted to him and, yes, I really do like younger men. On the flip side, there are lots of older men that are attracted to younger women -- it's just a natural part of attraction and there is nothing wrong with it. Anyway, I admitted to giving him alcohol once he got to my place and spent the night in the safety of my haven. But it was his choice and he suduced me. I never go after the younger ones. If they chose me and I like them, then it's free for all -- I'm going to take full advantage.

Did you get that through your brain, you lying Christian? The world needs to know that Christians are natural liars always out to tell a false story! Never trust a Christian.



Paul O

[_bcspace]

I was the one who made sure your record was annotated Shulem.

[_Droopy]

The use of illicit drugs and alcohol abuse is also an integral part of the homosexual life-style. This is well documented in the scientific literature.

See, for example, Ethan E. Bickelhaupt, “Alcoholism and Drug Abuse in Gay and Lesbian Persons: A Review of Incidence Studies” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Social Services 2/1 (1995) 5-14; Kim A. Bloomfield, “Comparison of Alcohol Consumption between Lesbians and Heterosexual Women in an Urban Population” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 33/3 (Oct 1993) 257-269; Kurt A. DeBord and Phillip K.Wood, “The relevance of sexual orientation to substance abuse and psychological distress among college students” Journal of College Student Development 39/2 (1998) 157-168; Ryan J. Ellison, Allen B. Downey and Peter H. Duesberg, “HIV as Surrogate Marker for Drug Use: A Re analysis of the San Francisco Men’s Health Study” Genetica 95 (1995) 165-171; Dennis J. Ghindia and Lenore A. Kola, “Co-factors affecting substance abuse among homosexual men: An investigation within a midwestern gay community” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 41/3 (Jul 1996) 167-177;
John L. Martin and Deborah S. Hasin, “Drinking, Alcoholism, and Sexual Behavior in a Cohort of Gay Men” Drugs and Society 5 (1990) 1-2, 49-67; D. Mosbacher, “Alcohol and other drug use in female medical students: a comparison of lesbians and heterosexuals” Journal of Gay and Lesbian Psychotherapy 2/1 (1993) 37-48; Paul M. Roman, “Gay Men, Drinking and Alcoholism” Contemporary Sociology 25/3 (May 1996) 422-423; Christine Flynn Saulnier and Brenda A. Miller, “Drug and alcohol problems: Heterosexual compared to lesbian and bisexual women” Canadian Journal of Human Sexuality 6/3 (1997) 221-231; William F. Skinner and Melanie D. Otis, “Drug and alcohol use among lesbian and gay people in a southern U.S. sample” Journal of Homosexuality 30/3 (1996) 59-92; Ron Stall and James Wiley, “A Comparison of Alcohol and Drug Use Patterns of Homosexual & Heterosexual Men” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 22 (1998) 1-2, 63-73.

Drs Freund and Heasman of the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two sizeable studies and calculated that 32-34% of the offenders against children were homosexual. In cases these two doctors had personally handled, homosexuals accounted for 36% of their 457 pedophiles.

K. Freund, “Pedophilia and heterosexuality vs. homosexuality” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (1984) 193-200. See also K. Freund and R. I. Watson, “The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex offenders against children: an exploratory study,” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 18 (Spring 1992) 34-43.

Even the much used Kinsey report backs this up:

These findings are confirmed by the admissions of homosexuals themselves. The 1948 Kinsey survey found that 37% of gay men and 2% of lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-17-year-olds, and 28% of gay men and 1% of lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-16-year-olds while they themselves were aged 18 or older.1 In 1970 the Kinsey Institute interviewed 565 white gays in San Francisco: 25% of them admitted to having had sex with boys aged 16 or younger while they themselves were at least 21.2 In The Gay Report, 23% of the gays and 6% of the lesbians admitted to sexual interaction with youth less than 16 years of age.3 Abel et al reported similarly that men who molested girls outside their family had averaged 20 victims each; those who molested boys averaged 150 victims each.4

P. H. Gebhard and A. B. Johnson, The Kinsey Data: Marginal Tabulations of the 1938-1963 Interviews Conducted by the Institute for Sex Research (New York: Saunders, 1979).
A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A study of the diversity among men and women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978)
K. Jay and A. Young, The Gay Report (New York: Summit, 1979).


As early as 1972, a coalition of homosexual groups has sought the repeal of age of consent laws, arguing that children as young as 8 years have a right to decide whether they enter into a sexual relationship with an adult.

Reported in George Grant and Mark Horne, Legislating Immorality: The Homosexual Movement Comes Out of the Closet. (Chicago: Moody Press, 1993) 40, 42.


Of course they've become much more circumspect now and pretty much only NAMBLA gets involved in this type of thing. But recall Harvey Milk, a self admitted sex abuser of teen boys.

Its utterly fruitless, of course, but good to see you in the Breech, bc.

I've published posts here over the years with links on this issue reaching into the stratosphere and the response is always the same.

"Homophobe!" "Bigot!" "Nazi!"

I really don't think most, if any of these links are even read by most, as the fear of what might be found within them overwhelms any incipient intellectual curiosity, in most cases.