Richard Sherlock Converts to Catholicism

[_why me]

I hope to have a love affair with Catholicism. Unfortunately, the last mass I attended gave me a bad taste. A man stood and told us how we are all like dirty dish rags. I hate dirty dish rags. I never returned after that. But you know, their churches have statues in them. I love that so much.

Oh that doesn't sound nice at all! Thankfully, I've missed this kind of thing. I like attending mass.

I also love Guadalupe. I always say a prayer to her and light a few candles. Can't hurt.

And this is what I am talking about in my last post. If Mormonism had the history of catholicism you would find it disgusting. And if child abuse was as rampant in Mormonism as it was in the catholic priesthood, you would find that disgusting.

But you seem to make allowances for catholicism that you wouldn't do for Mormonism.

[_hobo1512]

And this is what I am talking about in my last post. If Mormonism had the history of catholicism you would find it disgusting. And if child abuse was as rampant in Mormonism as it was in the catholic priesthood, you would find that disgusting.

But you seem to make allowances for catholicism that you wouldn't do for Mormonism.

Mormon history is just as bad (if not worse) than Catholic history. The main difference is they own up to it. Not try to deny it, or white wash it like Mormons do.

In less than 200 years, you've got the "prophet" marrying other men's wives, Mountain Meadows, etc. etc.

Sexual abuse is just as bad, if not worse in the Mormon church as in the Catholic church. Mormons tend to either villianize the victim, or pay it off really quick and quiet with gag orders. I'm guessing you are ignoring the statements from the companies that insure churches against this kind of thing.

Who was the Hot tub pervert legislator from Utah again? You know, the one who got a standing ovation from the other Mormons for his naked hot tub adventures with a 15 year old girl. what was his name again?

It has already been proven that sex abuse is more common in protestant churches than in Catholic.

[_hobo1512]

Good for Sherlock. He's taking a risk in moving toward what he regards as truth. Civilization and society are built on such instincts.




edit to add: Some of us never find the courage make such moves.

Well, I don't know. If someone left Mormonism over church history they should be sorely disappointed with catholic history. The religious wars between cathoilcs and protestants is a real head turner. Then of course, we have the problem of priests with a curiosity for children. And the secrecy behind it. However, those who do not make for allowances for imperfection in Mormonism seem to accept imperfection elsewhere.

Catholic history is not a bed of roses without thorns.

You might want to check your own mo-mo homo history before you shoot your mouth off.

Mormons are the kings of secrecy (or is that sacredness), including that of sexual abuse. How many Mormon boy scout leaders got busted? There were some bishops and stake presidents in there too.

morg central tries to get off the hook by saying they don't have a paid clergy, so it doesn't count. LOL They really need to get better at PR

by the way, how are those imaginary nuns and priests you hang out with?

[_PrickKicker]

You might want to check your own mo-mo homo history before you shoot your mouth off.

Mormons are the kings of secrecy (or is that sacredness), including that of sexual abuse. How many Mormon boy scout leaders got busted? There were some bishops and stake presidents in there too.

morg central tries to get off the hook by saying they don't have a paid clergy, so it doesn't count. LOL They really need to get better at PR

by the way, how are those imaginary nuns and priests you hang out with?

Actually it is way worse for Mormons because they believe in callings come through revelation,
therefore God/The Holy Ghoul is responsible, for these 'opportunist' sexual predators being in the position they are.

Another Epic Fail for the Holy Goat.

Revelation is BS, as many are called but few are chosen.
How does that even work?

[_Blixa]

Oh that doesn't sound nice at all! Thankfully, I've missed this kind of thing. I like attending mass.

I also love Guadalupe. I always say a prayer to her and light a few candles. Can't hurt.

And this is what I am talking about in my last post. If Mormonism had the history of catholicism you would find it disgusting. And if child abuse was as rampant in Mormonism as it was in the catholic priesthood, you would find that disgusting.

But you seem to make allowances for catholicism that you wouldn't do for Mormonism.

Just for the heck of it I'm going to reply to this troll, even knowing in advance that such a reply is about the most useless gesture I could make.

whyme, you seem to see all "exmormons" and "apostates" as having the same back story. I assure you they do not and I also assure you that in my case "history" had nothing to do with it.

The main reason why I am not a Mormon is the main reason why I am not a catholic. I don't seem to be able to believe in god. I don't know why that is, nor do I know if it will ever change.

(I also believe, though this is a bit off the point, that the people who really do believe in a God are very few compared to the mass of believers, who attend their churches and get much emotional sustenance and support from these institutions, but who never really suffer through doubt and faith and truly seek spiritual knowledge. I think what I am calling Real Seekers/Believers is a comparatively small group, but I do think I have met some of these people and met them right here on this board! Their experiences are extremely interesting to me, more and more interesting the more I have involved myself with Mormon Studies, because for the first time I am taking religion seriously as an object of study. But this is really off topic...)

There are things in Mormon theology, history and culture that I dearly love and respect. There are also things in that theology, history and culture that I do not respect and that I am critical of. I am critical of these things because of the other things I love. If I had no investment, either intellectual or emotional, I would have no motive for critique.

There are things in catholic theology, history and culture that I dearly love and respect. There are also things in that theology, history and culture....well you get the idea.

Your replies, whyme, are always One Size Fits All. It is as though you never really read the posts you are responding to, and worse, it is like you've not been hanging out on this board since forever and don't have a good idea of the various positions of long-time board members. There is absolutely nothing in your above reply that has anything at all to do with the 6000 posts I have made on this board (at least one of which details my love of Guadalupe because of her association with the Aztec Goddesses Coatlicue and Tonantzin).

[_Chap]

From quotes, I see that whyme is going on about all religions having historical problems to the same degree, so Sherlock ought to find Catholicism just as unsatisfactory as Mormonism. That is not true.

There are two kinds of historical problems that religions can have.

1. People who claim to believe in religion X have done bad things.

2. Central faith claims of the religion rest on historical claims that can be shown to be, very probably, false.

Problem (1) is shared by pretty well all religions. Nor does it bear on the faith claims of the religion, unless that religion says that its adherents are guaranteed to be morally perfect, which pretty well no major religion to my knowledge does.

Problem (2) bears much, much harder on a religion like Mormonism than it does on mainstream Christianity, partly because the historical events on which the special features of Mormonism depend are much more recent than those on which Christianity in general depends (the life, death and claimed resurrection of Jesus), and therefore much more amenable to evidential critique, and partly also because the Book of Mormon makes large claims about the history of the Americas that bear little resemblance to reality from a historical point of view.

[_why me]

Problem (2) bears much, much harder on a religion like Mormonism than it does on mainstream Christianity, partly because the historical events on which the special features of Mormonism depend are much more recent than those on which Christianity in general depends (the life, death and claimed resurrection of Jesus), and therefore much more amenable to evidential critique, and partly also because the Book of Mormon makes large claims about the history of the Americas that bear little resemblance to reality from a historical point of view.

Except that catholicism claims truth too. Mormonism and catholicism are two peas in a pod in that regard. Thus, both should be held up to the same standard. However, on this board, catholicism is given some respect. We have MCB constantly downing Mormonism but overlooking catholic skeletons. It is a standard CAF approach.

[_why me]

From quotes, I see that whyme is going on about all religions having historical problems to the same degree, so Sherlock ought to find Catholicism just as unsatisfactory as Mormonism. That is not true.

You are correct that I think that all religious faiths have historical problems in behavior of its leaders and members. And yes, sherlock should hold catholicism just as unsatisfactory as catholicism since catholicism also claims to be the one true faith. But...history...abuse...crappy nuns abusing each other etc... should sway the average Mormon convert who converts to catholicism over LDS history some pause for thought.

[_Morley]

Good for Sherlock. He's taking a risk in moving toward what he regards as truth. Civilization and society are built on such instincts.




edit to add: Some of us never find the courage make such moves.

Well, I don't know. If someone left Mormonism over church history they should be sorely disappointed with catholic history. The religious wars between cathoilcs and protestants is a real head turner. Then of course, we have the problem of priests with a curiosity for children. And the secrecy behind it. However, those who do not make for allowances for imperfection in Mormonism seem to accept imperfection elsewhere.

Catholic history is not a bed of roses without thorns.

I've expressed the same sentiments about someone thoughtfully embracing Mormonism.

Please read my post again. While you're at it, re-read Sherlock's blog post. How is this a reply to what I had to say? How is this a reply to anything Sherlock had to say?

[_why me]

I also love Guadalupe. I always say a prayer to her and light a few candles. Can't hurt.

But you don't believe in god. Why bother? But true it can't hurt, if one believes in saints.

Blixa, you have written thousands of posts being critical of Mormonism. Why? Just leave it alone and move on. Do you live in New York? Just enjoy the city. True, people are dying left and right in that city from murder and mayhem just like the good old days of the 70's but your time will be better spent.