City Creek Center

[_why me]

No matter what the LDS church does, the critics will find something to moan about. It is in their DNA. The city creek mall because it is a mall, found a fertile ground among the critics now and for years to come. However, it was a good investment and has provided people with work in the present and in the future. And those students who are now working in the mall are grateful for the job and for the chance to have some money in their pocket.

To complain about the mall is nothing but claptrap. And if any critics on this board have any sons and daughters working in this mall, they are hypocrites.

[_Blixa]

However, it was a good investment and has provided people with work in the present and in the future.

Check your tenses and/or understanding of time.

[_lostindc]

Suggesting city creek mall is a good investment is wrong. Not only are the financial returns low, the impact on future tithing payers will be felt. Bad publicity regarding the spending of Church dollars on a mall instead of humanitarian aid has alienated long-time members including individuals such as my wife. Imagine many members deciding to pull back investments. This is becoming a reality, hence the downsizing of paid workers within temples, janitorial staff, etc. Although, we will never know, due to Church withholdings, I believe it is a safe assumption to state: the percentage of members paying a full tithe is getting less each year. So why would the Church feel the need to show members that Church funds will be spent on building malls instead of helping the sick and needy? I tithed with the feeling in my heart that my money went to operating expenses and the rest to help the sick and needy. My trust was misplaced.

Now I want to touch upon the point of a U.S. mall being a good financial investment. This is incorrect. U.S. malls are taking enormous hits due to the web based sales. Although, some news sources state that malls are not dying (WSJ). Reality is, how much of your mall shopping that you did in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s are you now doing online? For me, a significant portion, upwards 50%. For instance, I could not imagine buying any electronic device in a mall minus the apple store. Although many malls are seen as thriving, they will soon be downsized and perhaps someday on the scale of video rental places. Clothing will continue to be ordered online, likewise gifts, small items, etc will too. This investment was not forward thinking. I appreciate the idea of investing in apartments, but a mall, not so much.

[Guest]

However, it was a good investment and has provided people with work in the present and in the future.

Check your tenses and/or understanding of time.

You can be my home tutor.

[Guest]

For years I've been reading comments about how the City Creek Mall is an example of the church wasting funds that could be used to help the poor etc...

I suppose what puzzles me a bit about this criticism is that people talk about this money as if it were just thrown away. In reality, the church converted one asset (cash) into another asset (property and other businesses). The key difference being that City Creek has the potential (and is quite likely) to produce consistent returns in the coming years. In other words, the church still retains a value of 2 billion but in reality, the asset has a much higher value when we consider the Net Present Value. Depending on the expected return rate and the cashflow generated by City Creek, perhaps the value is now 3 or 4 billion (probably more).

City Creek was not an expense, it was an investment because no value was lost and the investment will provide returns. These returns can then be used to fund a wide range of church activity -- including providing for the poor. Keeping this in mind, doesn't the investment demonstrate responsible stewardship? Spend the cash and its gone forever. Build City Creek and cash returns continue for as long as the business remains operational/profitable.

What am I missing?

Your missing the financials - transparancy. Who knows if it is a productive investment? The church doesn't disclose its financial matters. How much of the money that the mall returns (or doesn't return) will be helped to building "the kingdom" (The LDS corporate holdings) or in humanitarian aid? Who knows? We can only speculate.

If the LDS church has Jesus at its head, then why do they ignore the "take ye no thought for the morrow", teachings of Jesus?

If Jesus / God is running the show, why worry about investments, money, cash flow and the like? It isn't your program, but God's and he can take care of his own business.

[_zeezrom]

I think I get your point. What is the difference between a church with gobs of liquid cash and a church with huge solid investments? Either way, it is a church with a buttload of money. So, wasn't anyone complaining when the church had the gobs of liquid cash laying in their Laban's lair?

[_sock puppet]

I think I get your point. What is the difference between a church with gobs of liquid cash and a church with huge solid investments? Either way, it is a church with a buttload of money. So, wasn't anyone complaining when the church had the gobs of liquid cash laying in their Laban's lair?

I think they were complaining. It's just now, we know how it's got a couple of its billions invested, in a bright, shiny new mall.

[_why me]

It's just now, we know how it's got a couple of its billions invested, in a bright, shiny new mall.

Isn't it beautiful? Maybe you could interview the people working there about the opportunity to work there for some needed cash.

[_Phaedrus Ut]

I think it's reasonable for any institution to have a degree of net worth or security. If you are a church and one specifically claiming to be the restoration of the true church of Jesus of Nazareth then people may choose to judge your behavior by the teachings of Jesus.

If Jesus of Nazareth had 2 billion dollars would he build a luxury shopping mall? Or would he spend every last penny to easy pain, hunger, and suffering of people in this world.


Phaedrus

[_zeezrom]

You know how people are tasked with doing work for the dead when God could just snap his fingers to get the same thing done? We make his paths straight. Same thing goes for the building of the kingdom of God on the earth. God could just snap his fingers and build it. Instead, he wants his people to build the kingdom, one mall at a time.