Tithing on SS & Unemployment?

[_Fence Sitter]

The scripture says on 'all their interest', not income or increase. It also says that all 'surplus properties' must have been tithed to get to live with God in the hereafter.

Okay, then what would be your answer to my OP?

[_Darth J]

As with many other matters, such as the Word of Wisdom, current teachings on tithing have only a vague relationship to LDS canon. Although the D&C talks of tithing in terms of "increase," the modern LDS Church speaks of tithing in terms of, in effect, "any money that comes to any man, woman, or child from any source whatsoever." Example:

“Chapter 28: Tithing and Offerings,” Gospel Fundamentals, 154

Tithing is one-tenth of the money and other things we earn. Our Father in Heaven told people long, long ago to pay tithing. Abraham, Jacob, and many others obeyed this commandment.

If we earn or receive money, we should give one-tenth of it as tithing. If we have animals or crops we can also pay tithing. We give one-tenth of the crops or one-tenth of the new animals raised in the year. If possible, instead of giving the crops and animals to the Church, we should sell them and give the money to the Church. We pay our tithing to the bishop or the branch president. If we do not know how much we should give, we should ask our bishop or branch president to help us understand the law of tithing.

As we pay our tithing, we help spread the gospel throughout the world. Tithing is used to build Church buildings, print books, and pay for other things needed in Jesus’ true Church.

Even children should pay tithing. They will learn to do this as they see their parents pay tithing. If they begin to pay tithing when they are young, they will want to pay it when they are older and have families of their own.

Under the extremely broad, extremely self-serving definition of tithing the Correlation Committee has decided on, Social Security would seem to fit.

[_Darth J]

Here's a nice little anecdote from the Ensign. You tell me if printing this article is a big hint that the Church wants your SS dollars.

"She Shared Her Poverty" (Dec. 1980 Ensign)

It was a cold winter day in February when I knocked on Sister Chandler’s door. “Hello,” I called, opening the door a little in case she couldn’t hear me. “Are you napping?”

Sister Chandler moved slowly from her kitchen to answer the door. She was small and bent, and walked with a slight limp. Her long cotton dress was stained, as always, from carrying coal to her pot-bellied stove, which demanded constant attention to keep her small home warm. Her white hair, also coal stained, framed a face tired from seventy-nine years of troubles. But it was also a serene face, because as long as she had a winter’s supply of coal and a little food she had everything she needed to be happy.

I remembered how I had stared in disbelief when I first learned that she lived on a meager $59 a month. There were only two rooms in the house. The first room housed the temperamental stove, a double bed, a worn-out couch, and a set of broken dresser drawers. The other room, the kitchen, had a small cook-stove, a table and two chairs, and a side shelf for pots and pans and the storage of a little food. When we first met her she had no running water and no bathroom.

During the years my husband had served as her home teacher, we had visited her often. When we visited in the evening the house would invariably be dark. The one bare light globe would turn on when we knocked and turn off immediately when we began to drive away.

Sister Chandler had joined the Church as a new bride—her husband was already a member—and she recalled the days when there was no branch or stake. Their only contact with the Church was an occasional traveling missionary or two. But she had always remained faithful and once related how her testimony had sustained her through the deaths of her two daughters during the influenza epidemic of 1918.

In the few short months I had been Relief Society president I had never heard her complain about her circumstances nor ask for any help from the Church. But we helped her with food when her money ran out, and near the end of the month, a week or so before her Social Security check came, I always tried to look in on her to see how she was doing.

Now Sister Chandler’s eyes were sparkling at having a little company. “Come in!” she said. “I was just having lunch.” She was shy; she always spoke just above a whisper.

“Please don’t let me stop you. I’ll just visit with you while you eat,” I said.

I took her gently by the elbow and we began to walk slowly toward the kitchen. As we passed the bureau she stopped to get something out of the top drawer. I took a quick glance at the “lunch.” It consisted of a little flour and water that had been made into a kind of white gruel, nothing more.

“Sister Chandler, is that all you have in the house to eat?”

“Yes, that’s all, but no matter. My check will be here in a day or two. Please, will you take this to the bishop?” She thrust a wrinkled tithing envelope into my hand. “I didn’t have home teachers this month and I can’t get to church myself anymore. It’s my tithing. Please take it to him.”

I stood staring at the gray envelope. Everything inside of me wanted to cry out, “No, no. The Lord doesn’t expect you to pay tithing!” But one small voice deep inside whispered, “Don’t deny this soul the blessings.”

I fought back the tears as I quickly said good-bye and dashed to the car to arrange for some groceries for her.

Sister Chandler is gone now, but I will always remember the great lesson she taught me about sacrifice and devotion—it was easier for her to go hungry than to neglect her obligations to the Lord.

[_just me]

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[_cafe crema]

I stood staring at the gray envelope. Everything inside of me wanted to cry out, “No, no. The Lord doesn’t expect you to pay tithing!” But one small voice deep inside whispered, “Don’t deny this soul the blessings.”

That was Satan

[_sock puppet]

The scripture says on 'all their interest', not income or increase. It also says that all 'surplus properties' must have been tithed to get to live with God in the hereafter.

Okay, then what would be your answer to my OP?

I don't think SS or Unemployment benefits would fall within the ambit of 'surplus properties'.

"All their interest"? That seems to snag SS and Unemployment benefits.

However, let's suppose that someone has a net worth of $30,000 at the beginning of the year. She earns $70,000 during the year, and is able to save $10,000 of it, and has a net worth of $40,000 at the end of the year.

Is a tithe

(a) $7,000 (10% of $70,000 "income")?
(b) $1,000 (10% of $10,000 "increase"--$40,000 minus $30,000 being the 'increase')?
(c) $4,000 (10% of $40,000, 'all her interest')?

I think (c) is the best interpretation. The scripture uses terms "interest" and "properties" in relation to the base against which the 10% ought to apply.

So, I do not think given the verbiage of the scripture, that the 10% would apply to SS or Unemployment benefits per se. However, if the recipient has an net worth at the end of the year, I think that a full tithe would be 10% of that net worth, even if partly due to the SS or Unemployment benefits received during the year.

[_Equality]

and dashed to the car to arrange for some groceries for her.

At least they put this in there. I will give them a modicum of credit for that. Otherwise, the whole story just reeks to Takama-ga-hara.

[_Gadianton]

It's immoral and perhaps should be illegal to pay tithing on any kind of government benefit.

Look at it another way:

Imagine going to the Bishop's storehouse to receive assistance and he gives you 10 boxes of Mac & Cheese (church Mac & Cheese ain't half bad, by the way). Now, you happen to have a neighbor who is a millionare with a beautiful home and property. Every week you sell one box of Mac & Cheese and save the money from it. When you have enough, you buy one Zebra fish that glows in the dark and donate it to your neighbor's pond. As it turns out, there are several folks in the neighborhood doing the exact same thing, and this millionare is living in style with these fish swimming around his yard everywhere. When the bishop finds out, will he not be concerned that all these welfare recipients are wasting resources that could be helping others to eat or pay necessary bills? Wouldn't he suspect this rich eccentric is exploiting the struggling members of his ward for his own benefit, even if these members say it's totally voluntary? Wouldn't he be tempted to think a kind of fraud was in the works?

[Guest]

and dashed to the car to arrange for some groceries for her.

At least they put this in there. I will give them a modicum of credit for that. Otherwise, the whole story just reeks to Takama-ga-hara.

Well if it was a real event...it was apparently well known that the woman's money ran out before the end of the month, why didn't she show up with food isn't that what "relief society" folks are supposed to do? If she really was a couple of days away from getting money and living on flour and water it speaks poorly of the "relief society".
So do these authors cut their teeth writing ridiculous maudlin stories for the Ensign and move on to work at Bonneville in their Heartsell department. God I just can't believe people read this stuff it's just awful, the same kind of crude emotional manipulation junk the JW's drop off.

[_Gadianton]

it was easier for her to go hungry than to neglect her obligations to the Lord.

Sure. It's the Church's fault for brainwashing her, but by going without food or just eating flour she's putting her health at risk, and who is footing her medical bills? The Church? If so, then her "sacrifices" would not be permitted. But if the Church can benefit by 5$ a month off of money that was given to her by society to see to her health, even if at the expense of risking extra medical bills society must incur to facilitate the sacrifice, it will. That's how corrupt and greedy the brethren are.