Four Views of Joseph Smith

[_Fence Sitter]

Don Bradley barely mentioned Joseph Smith at all.

I have not listened to all of it yet.

What do you make of Don not mentioning Joseph Smith much?

[_Runtu]

Was he true prophet, sincere visionary, pious fraud, or con man?

What if he was all of the above (or none)? Humans are complex, and Joseph Smith was no different. Trying to pin a label on him is pointless because we will never get inside his head and know what he was thinking. What we have are his actions, words, and the religion he produced, and from them we can draw conclusions, but we'll never quite know the man's history.

[_Blixa]

Was he true prophet, sincere visionary, pious fraud, or con man?

What if he was all of the above (or none)? Humans are complex, and Joseph Smith was no different. Trying to pin a label on him is pointless because we will never get inside his head and know what he was thinking. What we have are his actions, words, and the religion he produced, and from them we can draw conclusions, but we'll never quite know the man's history.

I see what you did there.

[_Runtu]

I see what you did there.

Nothing ever gets past Blixa.

[_SteelHead]

What does it mean to be a "true prophet"? Can we point at anything where Joseph Smith prophecied something definitive, that then occurred? Something that can't be attributed to seeing which way the cultural and political wind was blowing?

[Guest]

What does it mean to be a "true prophet"? Can we point at anything where Joseph Smith prophecied something definitive, that then occurred? Something that can't be attributed to seeing which way the cultural and political wind was blowing?

Yep. He predicted that he could convince gullible people that he should have sexual relationships with their wives and teenage daughters because Mormon Bastard jesus commanded it.

Way to go Horny Holy Joe and Mormon Bastard jesus, "giving it to" the Stupid in the name of god.

[_sock puppet]

Was he true prophet, sincere visionary, pious fraud, or con man?

What if he was all of the above (or none)? Humans are complex, and Joseph Smith was no different. Trying to pin a label on him is pointless because we will never get inside his head and know what he was thinking. What we have are his actions, words, and the religion he produced, and from them we can draw conclusions, but we'll never quite know the man's history.

If you could know JSJr's history precisely, how would that impact your own life path?

[_Black Moclips]

As Runtu touched upon (maybe even sarcastically), I think its possible that all four elements are there. I think its possible that he started off with a sincere spiritual experience or vision from God. I think he could have been sincere in his desires to start something new and free from the old trappings of Christendom; however, through the associations and people he met along the way coupled with his family's poverty, I could see him straying from that original goal as he discovered how he could personally benefit from the situation. It possible he felt he was owed or deserved these things due to the things he had suffered in his life. Given strong enough reasons, people can delude and deceive themselves into some pretty crazy behaviors. I personally have no idea what really happened. But the above sounds more reasonable than a 14 year old kid scheming up something that became a global con at such an early age.

[_Fence Sitter]

As Runtu touched upon (maybe even sarcastically), I think its possible that all four elements are there. I think its possible that he started off with a sincere spiritual experience or vision from God. I think he could have been sincere in his desires to start something new and free from the old trappings of Christendom; however, through the associations and people he met along the way coupled with his family's poverty, I could see him straying from that original goal as he discovered how he could personally benefit from the situation. It possible he felt he was owed or deserved these things due to the things he had suffered in his life. Given strong enough reasons, people can delude and deceive themselves into some pretty crazy behaviors. I personally have no idea what really happened. But the above sounds more reasonable than a 14 year old kid scheming up something that became a global con at such an early age.

Well doesn't that assume that he was actually doing anything religiously at all at the age of 14 instead of later on claiming that's what he was doing at 14, or was it 17? He didn't start writing stuff down about his early life until after the Book of Mormon was published. So one does not have to believe a 14 year old was already scheming in order to see the whole thing as a con and/or pious fraud gone way out of control.

My money is on an ordinary conversion experience in his youth required by local churches to join, one that he may have made up or exaggerated just to impress the locals, nothing more, which he later on turned into the 1st vision, which, much later on the Church decided to make it a foundational event. It evolved is all.

[_aussieguy55]

Chris, you have to write the definitive biography of Joseph Smith, Not Smith as a genuine prophet or pious fraud but just a fraud.