Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

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_DoubtingThomas
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

Madison54 wrote:The story Holland relates is pretty unbelievable (he even quotes the people involved as if he witnessed it himself, but won't reveal who they are).

Do you believe it happened or is this another exaggeration, embellishment or complete fabrication from Elder Holland?


I see no need to doubt the story. Read the Improbability Principle by Dr. Hand.
There are 70,000 LDS missionaries talking to a lot of people every day, so of course some of them are going to hit the spiritual Powerball.

The odds of being struck by lightning in your life-time are 1 in 13,500, Roy Sullivan was hit by lightning on seven different occasions and survived all of them.

St Peter's Basiclica in Rome was struck by lightning hours after Pope Benedict announced his retirement in 2013. Strange stuff happens all the time.

honorentheos wrote:That could be. Even if the story happened exactly as recounted, though, the odds of something like it happening to any one person are slim but the odds of something like it happening among the ga-billions upon ga-billions of human encounters that happen in an undefined swath of time become almost 100%.


Exactly, but it just makes you wonder why extraodinary experiences like that are not more common in LDS missions.
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Tom »

Holland shared a similar story in a seminar for mission presidents in April 2016:

In our many discussions at the seminar, Elder Holland shared an account, not too dissimilar from that of the prodigal son we read about in Luke 15. He told of a man that was born and raised in Southern Idaho, who had grown up in the Church, and had all the blessings of the gospel laid before him. In his late teens he decided he wanted his inheritance, of which there was none, jumped on his motorcycle, and moved to the Big Apple to find a more thrilling and better life. Never to think of family and home again, he was done with what he was taught to be true. Upon arriving in New York City, he began to sow a lifestyle of immorality, drug abuse, tattoos, and worldliness beyond reproach. While not necessarily happy, he supposed it was better than anything better he could be doing, so he sank deeper and deeper into a pit.

One morning he woke up and decided he'd had enough of New York and that he'd make a new start on the sunny beaches of Southern California. He rode his motorcycle on the long journey and intentionally drove as far away as he could from his small town in Idaho. Along the way he hooked up with a new motorcycle gang, and upon arriving in California, continued the party lifestyle, added more tattoos, and distanced himself further and further from who he had once been.

A few years went by and he made his home in a shabby part of town, guarded by his two Rottweilers, up to no good. One day a pair of Mormon missionaries were walking past his house, and as trained, the two vicious dogs leapt from the front porch and raced towards the sidewalk, only being held back by long chains around their neck and a fence that surrounded the yard. The dogs came barking, with teeth baring, saliva flying, and eager to keep all away. As wise missionaries, they of course avoided this particular house, no need to risk life and limb on trying to get into this door.

As they walked down street, some thirty yards down the road now, the senior companion looked at the junior and said, "we have to go back to that house." The junior companion, thinking his senior companion was absolutely insane, reluctantly followed his companion back towards certain death. As they approached the fence, the Rottweilers sprang from the porch and went into their usual attack mode. This time however, instead of trying to break the chains that held them back, they came to the fences edge, turned around, and went back and sat on the porch.

Seeing the dogs retreat, the emboldened elders passed through the gate, walked up to the porch, and knocked on the front door. The now heavily tattooed, twenty years older, and worn down by life man, opened the door and stared down the two missionaries. Unfazed by the image of the man in front of them, the elders began with the message they had come prepared to share and before they could get much out, he asked them where they were from. The junior companion said he was from a town in Utah, and the senior companion said he was from a small town in Southern Idaho. Surprised that this Idaho missionary was from the same part of the world he was from, he asked the missionary the name of the town, and was even more surprised to hear they were from the same town! Now interested, the man asked if the missionary knew about such and such a man from this small town. The missionary responded that he did know him. The man then said, "that is my father", and then the elder smiled and said, "he is my father too."

Elder Holland then went on to tell us that he's kept track of this man. He's now returned to Southern Idaho, tattoos and all, married, and soon to be sealed in the temple.

http://www.texashoustonsouthmission.com ... en-4-25-16
Last edited by Guest on Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“A scholar said he could not read the Book of Mormon, so we shouldn’t be shocked that scholars say the papyri don’t translate and/or relate to the Book of Abraham. Doesn’t change anything. It’s ancient and historical.” ~ Hanna Seariac
_Lemmie
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Lemmie »

The story has definitely made the rounds. Irrespective of the truthfulness of the story, Holland has definitely added his typical variations this time around to exaggerate the faith-promoting angle.

From a 2015 Missionary blog:
Before I go I want to tell an amazing story we were told at the devotional last night by Kim. B Clark of The Seventy. He said there was this man who grew up in Idaho Falls in a faithful Mormon family, who ran away from home when he was 14 and went down a dark path of life. He joined the Hell's angels and got heavily into drugs and alcohol. One day he was passed out in the front yard of the home the Hell's Angels have in L.A California (a place to dry out if you are too wasted to drive), and some Mormon missionaries came walking up their street. He started mocking them, because he used to be Mormon and thought these elders were so naïve. They had two dogs in the yard that were trained to attack and kill anyone who tried to come into the yard, so he wasn't too worried about them trying to preach to him when they walked by. But then when they got to the end of the street, they talked for a minute and turned around and came back to the Hell's Angels house. The dogs started growling and acting like they were going to attack. But as soon as the Elders stepped foot on their sidewalk, the dogs walked away and laid down and went to sleep. Then one of the elders came up to the wasted man from Idaho, and said, "What's up?" The man said, “Oh, nothing,” and then the elder asked, "Where are you from?" and he said "Idaho Falls." Then the elder said, "No way! Me too! Do you happen to know the So-and-sos?" And then the wasted man said, "Yeah, they're my parents." Then the elder said something that changed both of their lives. "They're my parents, too."
It was the Hell's Angel's younger brother, all grown up and called to serve a mission in California. The elder said to his older brother he never knew what happened to him, but that he knows that God sent him there to bring him home. He ended up helping his brother turn his life around, go back to church, find Jesus again, move back home to Idaho, and reconnect with their parents. He ended up getting married in the temple five years later. The Hell's Angel ended up being in the Stake Presidency (local church leadership) with Kim B. Clark, which is where he learned the story from.

HOW AMAZING IS THAT?!
http://hermanaalisonknight.blogspot.com ... to-go.html
_I have a question
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _I have a question »

Gadianton wrote:
porch of a rented home


that was to show that the grieving family couldn't have done a records search to find him.

it's one of the things added by the narrator as the fish story passes around and grows.


This.

It's an example of more snake oil sales patter.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Jonah
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Jonah »

Wow. Even as a TBM I wouldn’t buy into this crap. Instead of feeling the “spirit”, I would be feeling my “bull crap detector”.

Of all the millions of people in SoCal the missionaries one day just happen upon an exmo, who just happens to be sitting on his front porch at that moment (I grew up in SoCal…never saw a lot of people sitting on their porches), who happens to have vicious dogs to chase away unwanted visitors, and who just happens to be the BROTHER of one of the missionaries!! Amazing!! It’s Ripley’s I tell ya!!

Yawnnnnnnnnnn. Wake me up when Holland tells the story of him striking out Brother Bryce Harper to win the World Series. Or of talking Jihadi John out of cutting off a comrade’s head, giving him a Book of Mormon, and then doing his temple work for him.
Red flags look normal when you're wearing rose colored glasses.
_sock puppet
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _sock puppet »

Tom wrote:Holland shared a similar story in a seminar for mission presidents in April 2016:

In our many discussions at the seminar, Elder Holland shared an account, not too dissimilar from that of the prodigal son we read about in Luke 15. He told of a man that was born and raised in Southern Idaho, who had grown up in the Church, and had all the blessings of the gospel laid before him. In his late teens he decided he wanted his inheritance, of which there was none, jumped on his motorcycle, and moved to the Big Apple to find a more thrilling and better life. Never to think of family and home again, he was done with what he was taught to be true. Upon arriving in New York City, he began to sow a lifestyle of immorality, drug abuse, tattoos, and worldliness beyond reproach. While not necessarily happy, he supposed it was better than anything better he could be doing, so he sank deeper and deeper into a pit.

One morning he woke up and decided he'd had enough of New York and that he'd make a new start on the sunny beaches of Southern California. He rode his motorcycle on the long journey and intentionally drove as far away as he could from his small town in Idaho. Along the way he hooked up with a new motorcycle gang, and upon arriving in California, continued the party lifestyle, added more tattoos, and distanced himself further and further from who he had once been.

A few years went by and he made his home in a shabby part of town, guarded by his two Rottweilers, up to no good. One day a pair of Mormon missionaries were walking past his house, and as trained, the two vicious dogs leapt from the front porch and raced towards the sidewalk, only being held back by long chains around their neck and a fence that surrounded the yard. The dogs came barking, with teeth baring, saliva flying, and eager to keep all away. As wise missionaries, they of course avoided this particular house, no need to risk life and limb on trying to get into this door.

As they walked down street, some thirty yards down the road now, the senior companion looked at the junior and said, "we have to go back to that house." The junior companion, thinking his senior companion was absolutely insane, reluctantly followed his companion back towards certain death. As they approached the fence, the Rottweilers sprang from the porch and went into their usual attack mode. This time however, instead of trying to break the chains that held them back, they came to the fences edge, turned around, and went back and sat on the porch.

Seeing the dogs retreat, the emboldened elders passed through the gate, walked up to the porch, and knocked on the front door. The now heavily tattooed, twenty years older, and worn down by life man, opened the door and stared down the two missionaries. Unfazed by the image of the man in front of them, the elders began with the message they had come prepared to share and before they could get much out, he asked them where they were from. The junior companion said he was from a town in Utah, and the senior companion said he was from a small town in Southern Idaho. Surprised that this Idaho missionary was from the same part of the world he was from, he asked the missionary the name of the town, and was even more surprised to hear they were from the same town! Now interested, the man asked if the missionary knew about such and such a man from this small town. The missionary responded that he did know him. The man then said, "that is my father", and then the elder smiled and said, "he is my father too."

Elder Holland then went on to tell us that he's kept track of this man. He's now returned to Southern Idaho, tattoos and all, married, and soon to be sealed in the temple.

http://www.texashoustonsouthmission.com ... en-4-25-16

"what he was taught to be true". Religious "truth" is not discovered. One discovers evidence. One is, however, taught shared myths. And in a religious context, further 'taught' that those shared myths are 'true'.

While most of us are yet under age 10 we discovered and figured out that the Santa Clause myth was not true. Most of us take a few years more to discover and figure out that the Jesus myth (even JSjr style) is not true.
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _sock puppet »

The Dobermans was a nice story telling touch; derivative from the Omen to add spice to the evil that the older brother had become.

I wonder why we didn't hear that upon his Boise Temple marriage, the spots on the older brother's body that no doubt had sported tattoos became white and delightsome once again.
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Dr Exiled »

I predict that there is correlation between g.a. b.s. rising as the number of people leaving rises.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_sock puppet
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _sock puppet »

Exiled wrote:I predict that there is correlation between g.a. b.s. rising as the number of people leaving rises.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
_canpakes
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _canpakes »

We can call this story The First Reunion. Holland is already following in Joseph Smith's footsteps by changing it up multiple times.
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