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RockSlider wrote:He may have invented the heart/lung machine, but Al Gore still has him beat by inventing the internet.

These faith-promoting rumors and urban legends do seem to be piling up lately. Gadianton made an excellent point re this in the other Nelson thread:

Gadianton wrote: it's fascinating the degree people can lie to themselves and others in the relative open. Paul H. Dunn didn't act alone. An extremely revealing incident for me as a TBM was at BYU, in my second Book of Mormon class. This was right during the scandal. The lame teacher I had mentioned it in passing indirectly, like, "the recent incident with..." but did not mentioning Dunn by name, and said he'd known it was going on for 10 years. So, major cog dis, it was just in the back of my mind that if that Book of Mormon teacher knew about it, then certainly many others did too, and no one did anything about it or spoke up?

Mormonism has a culture that promotes unadulterated lying, we will all look the other way so long as what you're lying about is faith promoting.

viewtopic.php?p=1079565#p1079565

From Lemmie's post:

Even one of the most famous surgeons of that time [circa 1950's]

vs.

at a meeting of the Vienna Medical Society in 1881 he reportedly muttered

Doctor Steuss wrote:From Lemmie's post:

Even one of the most famous surgeons of that time [circa 1950's]

vs.

at a meeting of the Vienna Medical Society in 1881 he reportedly muttered

I know, right? That's why I suspect she just borrowed the story. When I was looking into this earlier in the year, I noticed that the histories would credit Gibbons with being the actual pioneer of the open heart technique; but according to Gibbons the first heart operation in the U.S. actually took place half a century earlier, in 1896:

JOHN H. GIBBON, M. D, of New York, says (American Journal of the Medical Sciences, September, 1904) the operation was first suggested by Doctor John. B. Roberts in 1881, and the first operation was reported in 1896.
https://books.google.com/books?id=zVcCA ... D1&f=false

The story of the first operation is invariably followed by quoting the Billroth story, calling him a prominent surgeon "of the time."

I think Ms. Nelson conflated the two time lines, hence her version of the story. It's no more garbled than any other of the facts in her talk. :rolleyes:

Lemmie wrote:I think Ms. Nelson conflated the two time lines, hence her version of the story. It's no more garbled than any other of the facts in her talk. :rolleyes:

But here’s the thing. Her story doesn’t stack up, the key facts are just plain wrong and Nelson’s role is overstated. Ms. NELSON got this story from the horse’s mouth, her husband. She is regurgitating what he told her. Glorifying your husband is one thing, but this is Russell NELSON glorifying himself firstly to his wife, and then letting her repeat it to the public. He’s literally sat there listening to it and he must know better than we do just how far removed from reality it is.

It’s Paul H. Dunn, Dieter “Hijack Hero” and Holland’s mythical Hell’s Angel all over again.

I have a question wrote:

Lemmie wrote:I think Ms. Nelson conflated the two time lines, hence her version of the story. It's no more garbled than any other of the facts in her talk. :rolleyes:

But here’s the thing. Her story doesn’t stack up, the key facts are just plain wrong and Nelson’s role is overstated. Ms. NELSON got this story from the horse’s mouth, her husband. She is regurgitating what he told her. Glorifying your husband is one thing, but this is Russell NELSON glorifying himself firstly to his wife, and then letting her repeat it to the public. He’s literally sat there listening to it and he must know better than we do just how far removed from reality it is.

It’s Paul H. Dunn, Dieter “Hijack Hero” and Holland’s mythical Hell’s Angel all over again.

Excellent point. And this is Wendy Nelson speaking, right? She did not live through it as his first wife did--even more evidence the exaggerations and errors had to have come from him.

When I was a teenager I was a home teaching companion and visited Dr. Barney Clark, who was a wealthy dentist in our ward. Inactive. He had a beautiful round home which overlooked Puget Sound.

The University of Utah Medical Center or whatever it was called then made history by installing the first mechanical heart, in him.

In repetition, it’s hard not to say there has been exuberance, oversimplification and combining of stories, shading of facts and context, by those celebrating, and those minimizing, Dr. Russell Nelson’s role in the development of the heart lung machine used in open heart surgery, and other advancements in cardio-thoracic surgery.

With many contemporaries and colleagues, involved in the development and refinement of the heart lung machine, (who all likely contributed out-of-the-box thinking), now gone and unable to speak, it is probably useful to also include the existing, though limited, words of Dr. John Gibbons, the undisputed “Father of the Heart Lung Machine” in making one’s own conclusions about Dr. Nelson’s involvement (see article and the references at the end):

https://bchcicu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... aratus.pdf

One might also look in the medical literature to discover and weigh where possible specifics Dr. Nelson contributed to medical science (two references provided below).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 32bfb83b3e

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802968/

BigDub wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:39 pm

In repetition, it’s hard not to say there has been exuberance, oversimplification and combining of stories, shading of facts and context, by those celebrating, and those minimizing, Dr. Russell Nelson’s role in the development of the heart lung machine used in open heart surgery, and other advancements in cardio-thoracic surgery.

With many contemporaries and colleagues, involved in the development and refinement of the heart lung machine, (who all likely contributed out-of-the-box thinking), now gone and unable to speak, it is probably useful to also include the existing, though limited, words of Dr. John Gibbons, the undisputed “Father of the Heart Lung Machine” in making one’s own conclusions about Dr. Nelson’s involvement (see article and the references at the end):

https://bchcicu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... aratus.pdf

One might also look in the medical literature to discover and weigh where possible specifics Dr. Nelson contributed to medical science (two references provided below).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 32bfb83b3e

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802968/

The first link you provided claims Nelson’s involvement was research he conducted on dogs, killing them in the process, and no doubt inflicting suffering on them along the way.

BigDub wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:39 pm

In repetition, it’s hard not to say there has been exuberance, oversimplification and combining of stories, shading of facts and context, by those celebrating, and those minimizing, Dr. Russell Nelson’s role in the development of the heart lung machine used in open heart surgery, and other advancements in cardio-thoracic surgery.

With many contemporaries and colleagues, involved in the development and refinement of the heart lung machine, (who all likely contributed out-of-the-box thinking), now gone and unable to speak, it is probably useful to also include the existing, though limited, words of Dr. John Gibbons, the undisputed “Father of the Heart Lung Machine” in making one’s own conclusions about Dr. Nelson’s involvement (see article and the references at the end):

https://bchcicu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... aratus.pdf

One might also look in the medical literature to discover and weigh where possible specifics Dr. Nelson contributed to medical science (two references provided below).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 32bfb83b3e

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802968/

Dub, I'm glad that you've decided to finally dig this six year-old thorn out of your paw. Let us know how it goes.

That's nuthin'. My wife thinks I invented doggie treats! NO ONE TELLS HER OTHERWISE....