Midgley defends the LGT -- from New Zealand???

[_Dr Exiled]

When in doubt, gaslight.

[_Gadianton]

Bumping this for Dr. LOD.

It goes something like this: According to Midgley, Newton claims that the Maori Mormons have long believed themselves to be remnants of the Lamanites and the Book of Mormon is "their book". But "DNA evidence" has forced the Mopologists to invent the Limited Geography Theory, which has been officially adopted by the Church, and so the credibility of the Maori's myth about themselves erodes.

The Book of Mormon was read by the older Māori I knew in 1950–1952 as “their story” in the sense that it was a tribal history whose  narrative was very much like their own

The apologists' "intellectual imperialism" is on full display in Midgley's work on Maori. Without a shred of scholarly evidence, he displaces the Maori's own views of themselves with his interpretation of them from what he remembers from his mission -- their entire culture must fall in line with the demands of the Limited Geography Theory.

[_moksha]

What is the LDS Maori take on their DNA background? Is the thought of a stray Lamanite in the woodpile sufficient to staunch their faith? Why not demand full Nephite status?



Descendants of Hagoth in Japan

[_Dr LOD]

Thanks for bringing that up, I was wondering if someone addressed this with a review after seeing the excellent review posted today by Dr. Moore.

If I may add a few gems from this series on the Maori as found in the Interpreter

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... mendments/

This article contains some very good historical information and was actually an enjoyable read. He did have some interesting comments.

Those who currently identify as Māori and are faithful Latter-day Saints have been liberated from the usual temptations that every human being faces during their mortal probation, and also from the additional evils thrust upon indigenous peoples everywhere by European colonization.

So is he saying that the COJCOLDS is some kind of cure for "evil" European Colonization? I would argue they are more part of the problem instead of the cure.

In the late 1990s there was a renewed interest in old Māori arcane lore among Māori Latter-day Saints.

There is an increasing interest in traditional Māori lore and learning among Latter-day Saints which I see as salutary.

Interesting to minimize Maori traditional beliefs by calling it "lore." But at least he approves of it.

Apparently by this time the Maori LDS community noticed something was missing, or maybe their kids were falling to sins pushed up on them by those "evil European colonizers" and maybe the LDS teachings were just not getting through. So what do they do they search back to their own cultural stories, legends and beliefs that shaped and supported them as a people for a thousand years.

This article is very interesting it is titled The Māori Stairway to Heaven it is a book titled Ngā Mahi: The Things We Need to Do; The Pathway of the Stars by Jason Hartley. Overall the actual review of the book is good, it sounds like a great book and I will put on my reading list. The most interesting point from Midgleys review is that it seems like the Mormon Religion present much in this book. It is more about getting in touch with traditional Maori beliefs as a possible fix to some of the problems that colonialization has brought to the Maori.

Then Midgley adds a portion called "Some Polemical Notes" even though it really doesn't belong with the review he then goes into a short version of LDS history among the Maori, and how his version is the true one. He gets repetitive in repeating this in every article.

My own position is that some but not all Māori were prepared by what were authentic divine special revelations by their own matakite (seers)19 for both the authority and message of Latter-day Saint missionaries

Saying authority in that way is assuming quite a bit.

Now to my favorite bits from the article reviewed in this post.
Marjorie Newton’s Account of the Faith of the Māori Saints: A Critical Appraisal

In her concluding remarks in Mormon and Maori, Newton opines that “for a small minority” of Māori Saints, “the costs of being a Maori Mormon may be too high” (M&M, 180). Why? In her thesis she claims that: “The Mormon Church still speaks with an American voice in its foreign missions and stakes . . . Although the Mormon Church may not demand ‘cultural suicide’ from its converts, New Zealand Mormons, in common with all members of the international LDS Church, are implicitly expected to commit what Rana Kabbani termed ‘cultural treason’ if they wish to identify fully with Mormonism”...............Additionally, she is certain that an alien American church has increasingly insisted that Māori pay a high cultural price if they desire to be faithful Latter-day Saints.

I think that Newton is correct with the above paragraph, "cultural treason" is an apt description on what at times happens especially those that the church identifies as Lamanites.

My native american parent pretty much had to give up her tribal identity, and take up the Lamanite identity while at BYU. That identity was then instilled to her children. Years later we all regret what was lost, in a way it was as effective as the Indian Boarding School system at rooting out the tribal identity of individuals.

She seems to ignore the fact that Hagoth was Nephite in her argument that, by teaching the Māori that they were Lamanites, LDS missionaries clashed with what she calls maoritanga, and thereby challenged both Māori traditions about their own origins as well as recent secular speculation about such matters.

This is the first time I have really heard of this being an issue. I can't think of a time where I have heard any Polynesian forcefully claim that they were Nephite. And at least all my life I have seen them gladly be identified as laminate. And two members of my family have served missions in those areas and none of them mentioned them as being Lamanite. This is uniquely an apologetic argument. I don't know why I haven't heard a Polynesian use it, maybe because they don't want to sound racist.

It goes further

Why would Māori, for whom the Book of Mormon is “their book,” incorrectly see themselves as having “Lamanite descent” when there is exactly nothing in that book to justify such a belief? Gina Colvin, who was raised as a Latter-day Saint but who has now become an Anglican, is the only Māori of whom I am aware who muddles Hagoth with the Lamanites. However, she could merely be following Newton’s lead on this matter.

Well isn't that interesting? Muddle? which usually has the connotation of being dirty and impure. Midgley makes his point very clear. That the Maroi he served his mission among are the good Nephites. And all those others are the less worthy and lazy Lamanites.

Well if that was the case, why didn't Jesus show up to those Nephites too? like he did the Lamanites.

Newton claims that “many Mormon apologists” fashioned a Mesoamerican limited geography for the Book of Mormon as a result of DNA studies

Midgely is correct on this one the LGT was started much earlier, by some academics, but it really wasn't given much official credence until the early 1990.

He then goes on to ramble about DNA, and saying that Perego somehow put that all to rest with his explanations on population genetics. Which he didn't and Southerton effectively pointed that out in his recent publication.

[_Dr LOD]

What is the LDS Maori take on their DNA background? Is the thought of a stray Lamanite in the woodpile sufficient to staunch their faith? Why not demand full Nephite status?



Descendants of Hagoth in Japan

I have yet to meet a Polynesian that claims Nephite status. I think it is more of a thing with the white missionaries who serve there. It makes them feel better about their missions.

[_Lemmie]

From the OP:

Gadianton:

The body of his essay is another matter. I don't know much about Newton's work or the history of the Mormon church in New Zealand (Midgley uses the term 'Mormon' 172 times in the essay) and so maybe those better versed in this epoch will have greater appreciation for Midgley's efforts here, but personally, despite a strong abstract, I found the majority of the paper's contents a little odd....

You’re not the only one, Gadianton. From one of Midgley’s various reviews on Marjorie Newton’s work, one of her editors weighs in with a fairly harsh critique of Midgley’s standard hit piece strategy:

Lavina Fielding Anderson on November 27, 2017 at 3:42 pm said:

I was an editor at Greg Kofford Books, the publisher of Marjorie Newton’s books on the Church in New Zealand, and edited both of her books on New Zealand.

Louis C. Midgley’s retrospective review (see https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... ve-review/) contains some disturbing claims.

Marjorie Newton has written four books – Southern Cross Saints (a history of the LDS Church in Australia), Tiki and Temple and Mormon and Maori (the Church in New Zealand), and Hero or Traitor? Charles Wesley Wandall: A Biography of Charles Wesley Wandell.

The review challenges what Midgley perceives as Newton’s anti-American agenda. A key claim is: “Even though she is Latter-day Saint, she has chosen to follow those who claim they are not interested in the question of the truth (or untruth) of that faith. Marjorie Newton’s own understanding of the faith of the Saints manifests indifference to truth questions. An indifference to truth-claims prevents or hampers understanding what believers find soul-satisfying.”

This claim of Marjorie Newton’s “indifference” seems to be a manifestation of Midgley’s own agenda, which has, for years, been an attempt to defend Mormon truth claims. Defending the faith requires an enemy – someone or something who is attacking the faith.

Positioning Marjorie Newton as such an enemy is a serious misreading of her books, and a misapplication of Midgley’s defensive agenda. He seems to be attacking Marjorie for not having written the books that he wants instead of reviewing the books she actually wrote.

In the “Comments” section, he states that “she insists there is scientific proof that there was no Lehi, and hence the indigenous peoples of America and Pacifica could not possibly be Children of Lehi. She sees belief that the Book of Mormon is an authentic ancient history as part of what she considers American Mormon cultural imperialism.”

These statements are so inaccurate that they approach slander. Marjorie makes no such claims about Lehi or the historical nature of the Book of Mormon. In fact, such statements flatly contradict her personal beliefs and commitment to the Church. She reports arguments from others who differ from her own views, but they are clearly identified as those of others.

Both of Marjorie Newton’s books on the Church in New Zealand (Tiki and Temple and Mormon and Maori) were awarded the prize for international history by the Mormon History Association in the years they were published.

Marjorie’s family associations with the Church date to the late 1840s when her stepmother’s grandparents were converted in England. She was blessed at age five, and has been an active, contributing member, serving in ward, stake and Area callings and assignments to the present day. Her husband served as a bishop and a counselor in two stake presidencies among many other callings. Marjorie is currently serving as a member of the Australia Church History Committee and, at the request of the Pacific Area Presidency, served on the committee preparing displays for the new Matthew Cowley Pacific Church History Museum, with the responsibility of ensuring the historical accuracy of all texts used in displays.

Her vita is available on request. She invites those interested to read her books and draw their own conclusions.

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... ve-review/

Midgley’s response, ironically, is to wonder who ordered the ‘hit piece’ on him:

Louis Midgley
on December 15, 2017 at 1:17 am said:

....I am now simply astonished and deeply disappointed at Lavina’s diatribe. What was the motivation for her hit piece aimed at me? I wonder if Marjorie Newton might have asked Lavina to trash my retrospective review.

Another commenter noted that Anderson’s comment was a helpful addition to the review published by the Interpreter, which in their opinion is permeated with irrelevant, personal and unprofessional attacks:

R Watson

on January 7, 2019 at 5:29 pm said:

I would disagree Mr Midgley.

I think the summary provided of Newtons life service gives great context to this discussion, as your article is permeated with an overtone that Newton is some how antagonistic towards the church and faith promoting experiences – with a careful reading of her work and understanding the context/audience it was written for – this view is not justified.

This subtle, ad-hominem, approach may have been accidental given you are disagreeing with much of her work.

I appreciate the clarification from Lavina and do not see how her comment is an “. . ..effort to prevent a free and open conversation…” merely because she disagrees with your content, tone, and perceptions as to Newtons ‘agenda’.

and same commenter:

R Watson

on January 7, 2019 at 4:57 pm said:

Thanks Lavina – this is a very interesting summary of Newtons life work. I didn’t realize how decorated her works were and also the significance of her ongoing, and even recent, contribution to the Church via the various committees see serves on (at the request of the Pacific Area Presidency!).

It gives me a much clearer view of Newton as an author, and in many respects, places her as a leading authority on these matters.

This was not made clear in in Midgley’s blog post.

It’s unfortunate that such a well-respected and accomplished author has to tolerate being the target of the Interpreter’s favored ‘hit piece’ technique. Thankfully, those kind of hit pieces don’t seem to be on the agenda for the Maxwell Institute and other lds-related and more academically oriented publishing venues.

[_moksha]

Descendants of Hagoth in Japan

Ah, the restoration of full immersion baptism was not needed with this migratory remnant.

[_Philo Sofee]

Excellent work Lemmie. My Lordie Lordie it is astonishing that Midgley has such a brutish fight mentality with anyone who sees things differently than he does! It mars his perspective, and definitely screams do not trust anything the man writes about anyone. It's as if his narrowness prevents him from realizing there really are more than one view about reality, and his is not the sacrosanct one alone, singularly true, against all other views. This narrowness is amazing to see play out in his disturbing misreadings of literally everything he reads which differs in even small ways from the way he interprets truth and reality. The attack style is just heinous, and somehow someone really needs to get him to see it is so unneccesary to be a prick all the time against others who do not grasp information in the same manner as he does. And since he is not God, it is perfectly fine for others to have different understandings.

I can't quite fathom than DCP doesn't sit him down and say "Lou we need to talk"....... someone needs to get hold of Lou's bishop and get him interviewed about his obsessive attacking of everyone who disagrees with his own conclusions on matters pertaining to Mormonism. Does he really think he is the only one who reads stuff? Man, he hasn't even made it to chakra level one in spirituality yet...