Polygamy

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _Maksutov »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Maksutov wrote:Run away little cultist! Don't read, don't listen!

Not going to answer the question, huh? When it's inconvenient to answer a serious question, just plug your ears and shout, "Cultist!!"

No, I haven't listened to this podcast. But does it help to know that I listened to most, if not all, of John Larsen's podcasts back in the day? He's come and gone. Dehlin has come and will go (I listened to most of his podcasts back in the day). RFM is here now...but it will someday be gone and along will come another voice to further act as opposition to the church and its mission. So it has been, and so it ever will be until the mission of the church is completed and the great Jehovah says, "The work is done." Opposition seems to be a force of nature.

Podcasts will not overtake the great stone that is rolling throughout the earth with the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You'll die someday, the church will live on. The caravan will continue.

You can come back. What would it take? Would you have to repent? :wink:

Methinks you have been very selective over the years in what you've decided to pick and choose from the available material/evidence...pro and con...against the mission and calling of the prophets of the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. I would also hazard a guess that the commandments of the church/gospel were not to your liking or did not meet your preferential inclinations.

And so here you are.

Regards,
MG

You want everybody to read and listen to what you link to but never return the favor. You want to defend polygamy? Good, declare your slimy proclivities to the world. You'll get the back of the hand from me. My family survived polygamy on both sides.

I love how you think you're putting out some sly insinuations and innuendo in the above. You really overestimate yourself. :lol:

Yeah, give us more of the thought terminating cliches and phrases that are supposed to elicit the conditioned Mormon response. Doesn't work with me.

Keep dissing the podcasters. They're reaching all sorts of people. You're just embarrassing yourself with the same tired old crap you always try to pull. Nobody is willing to settle for that anymore except for the frauds and defenders of frauds who hope to rise in the pyramid scheme.

While you won't read or listen to what I linked to, others will. You're a lost cause (except as an object lesson and warning to others) and so you aren't the audience. But go ahead with your lame ass usual and try to stop me. It's entertaining AF. :lol: :lol: :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Master_DC
_Emeritus
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:54 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _Master_DC »

MG,

Sincere question. What was the purpose of polygamy? I honestly do not see the purpose and how it improved the lives of the saints. I went from not understanding it and storing it in the back of my mind to abhorring the practice of it. In my point of view, you cannot separate the practice from how Joseph lived it to Brigham and the rest of the prophets. I have a major issue with these old men marrying young women and girls. There was NO reason for it other than they could. If the practice was important as they made it sound, God commanded it, then why was it done away with?
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Master_DC wrote:MG,

Sincere question. What was the purpose of polygamy? I honestly do not see the purpose and how it improved the lives of the saints. I went from not understanding it and storing it in the back of my mind to abhorring the practice of it. In my point of view, you cannot separate the practice from how Joseph lived it to Brigham and the rest of the prophets. I have a major issue with these old men marrying young women and girls. There was NO reason for it other than they could. If the practice was important as they made it sound, God commanded it, then why was it done away with?


Not a simple topic to discuss. It's complex and comes to us from many different angles/purposes/viewpoints. I would suggest starting here:

https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/about- ... ian-hales/

https://ldsperspectives.com/2017/05/24/ ... eph-smith/

Regards,
MG
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _Maksutov »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Master_DC wrote:MG,

Sincere question. What was the purpose of polygamy? I honestly do not see the purpose and how it improved the lives of the saints. I went from not understanding it and storing it in the back of my mind to abhorring the practice of it. In my point of view, you cannot separate the practice from how Joseph lived it to Brigham and the rest of the prophets. I have a major issue with these old men marrying young women and girls. There was NO reason for it other than they could. If the practice was important as they made it sound, God commanded it, then why was it done away with?

Not a simple topic to discuss. It's complex and comes to us from many different angles/purposes/viewpoints. I would suggest starting here:

https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/about- ... ian-hales/

https://ldsperspectives.com/2017/05/24/ ... eph-smith/

Regards,
MG

Link and run. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, it wasn't simple for David Berg or David Koresh or Warren Jeffs or Father Yod or the Lafferty Brothers either. They said it was from God too. :lol: :lol: :lol: I bet Warren Jeffs' disciples have all kinds of links to explanations. And they would run too. :cool:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Maksutov wrote:I bet Warren Jeffs' disciples have all kinds of links to explanations.

Such as?

The links I provided cover the bases.

Regards,
MG
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _Maksutov »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Maksutov wrote:I bet Warren Jeffs' disciples have all kinds of links to explanations.

Such as?

The links I provided cover the bases.

Regards,
MG

If you won't read the links of others, there's no reason to bother. You can't have covered "the bases" when you avoid so much information.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_grindael
_Emeritus
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:15 am

Re: Polygamy

Post by _grindael »

I get so tired of jackasses who think they know about Mormon History. :redface:

Neither Chauncey L. Higbee or Francis were ever an "aide-de-camp" of Bennett or anyone else that I can discover. Unlike the prophet's own brother, Chauncey was not involved in the '42 scandal. Why you would bring up his name in relation to Bennett is baffling.

What is not baffling is that ... Once again, Mental shows us that he can throw crap out there, but doesn't really know what he's talking about. (Bennett's aide-de-camps" (Colonels) in the Nauvoo Legion were Carlos Gove and "The Pagan Prophet" Lucian Woodworth. (What is interesting is that Woodworth's daughter, Flora, eloped with Carlos Gove shortly after Smith took her as a Spiritual Wife.) I doubt Mental knows who he was, but he did make an affidavit in the Nancy Rigdon affair calling out Stephen Markham as a liar and Jo was so perturbed by it that he disavowed Markham's affidavit (which he and William printed in the Wasp or Neighbor - can't recall which one).

Officers and Staff of Nauvoo Legion courtesy of JSP:
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/bc-js ... hart12.pdf

When Wilson Law was elected as Major General when Bennett was cashiered, it is interesting to see who voted for him instead of Lyman Wight. (Smith's bodyguards/Danites that I can identify voted for Law). There are two Higbees that voted, neither are Francis or Chauncey. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... transcript

Anything Brian Hales writes is apologetic drivel.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Maksutov wrote: You can't have covered "the bases" when you avoid so much information.

I said that the Hales are a good place to start. From there I would recommend going on to:

https://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Polygamy- ... 0941214796

and

https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Lonelines ... oks&sr=1-1

I was able to learn a bunch from reading these two books years ago. They are pretty even handed in my opinion.

As I mentioned earlier, early LDS polygamy is not a simple straightforward subject with easy answers. One has to do a bit of reading, as I'm sure you have done.

Regards,
MG
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _mentalgymnast »

grindael wrote:Neither Chauncey L. Higbee or Francis were ever an "aide-de-camp" of Bennett...

Is this a trustworthy source?

https://rsc.BYU.edu/archived/re-18-no-1 ... cis-higbee

Regards,
MG
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Polygamy

Post by _Maksutov »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Maksutov wrote: You can't have covered "the bases" when you avoid so much information.

I said that the Hales are a good place to start. From there I would recommend going on to:

https://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Polygamy- ... 0941214796

and

https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Lonelines ... oks&sr=1-1

I was able to learn a bunch from reading these two books years ago. They are pretty even handed in my opinion.

As I mentioned earlier, early LDS polygamy is not a simple straightforward subject with easy answers. One has to do a bit of reading, as I'm sure you have done.

Regards,
MG

Oh, I've talked to Hales. So has grindael. Don't bother.

I don't just have to do reading to understand polygamy--and I have read both of the books you mention. I look at what happened to my family, my ancestors. I look at what is happening to people in polygamist groups now. They are destructive cults and you are trying to defend the practices of a cult. Maybe you think or hope that Mormonism has outgrown its culthood. I hope for that change but it won't come from people like you. Just the opposite. You are one of the constructors and maintenance crew of the Mormon Ghetto. Of course you want it to continue. Being a ghetto guard gives you purpose and authority. It also makes you laughable and contemptible. But you don't care or you wouldn't be here, would you? :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
Post Reply