So MG does the "after all we can do" mean like BYU's Steven Robinson's parable of the little girl wanting a bike- she/sinner does what she can and earns $10, then her dad/Christ "makes up the $70 difference/ atonement" OR is it like Bob Millet at BYU says "after all we can do" means "in spite of what we can do/no matter what we do, nothing we do matters"- he says in terms of salvation by grace -it's all Christ/Atonement.
As I said, we are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ after all we can reasonably do to live His gospel, keep His commandments, and continually repent of our sins. The mechanism...in minute detail...that churns this out is beyond my pay grade. Although, admittedly, many great scholars have tried to do so.
The atonement is all encompassing.
I think we need to take Christ at His word. His grace and power are sufficient to save.
...we submit totally our will to God having been convicted in our mind and heart of our sinfulness and accept Christ as our personal Savior in an authentic conversion relying totally on Christ' substitonary sacrifice for all the sins, past present and future of all mankind- having done that with a sincere heart our names are written in the lamb's book of life never to be erased- thus assuring us of eternal security/salvation.
Where does repentance fit? Is it part of the process of being saved in Christ? Without continued repentance of sin throughout life can you reach your potential?
Gadianton, thanks. I hardly picture myself leading a congregation however. I know my line of thinking is held by many besides myself but it seems that other points of view are louder in the public square.
I can’t find the thread where I was going to post this; a thread about word counts in church leadership talks where the word grace was one of the words with an increasing word count.
Anyway, I’d be interested in hearing from persons who have been church members elaborate on how Latter-day Saints understand God’s grace. I’ve understood it to be pretty much the opposite of what I was taught being raised in a non-LDS church, which is God’s grace is his unmerited favor.
Recently, as I’ve talked to a couple of people who are formerLDSs, and have trusted in Christ alone, their faces light up and the first thing out of their mouth was profound thankfulness for God’s grace. This has got me thinking that maybe I have somewhat taken this for granted myself.
With that being said, is God’s grace in LDS theology different from enabling power to merit Heavenly Father’s favor by one’s behavior or do I understand it incorrectly?
I am a current and active church member...so you may not want to hear from me...but here goes anyway. It’s all rather simple when this grace thing is stripped down to its essence.
Faith without works is dead and we are saved by the grace (of Christ) after all we can do.
And that just makes sense. Without all the gobblygook people want to attach to it. Grace and works need to be simple and straightforward enough for the ‘least’ saint to understand and abide by.
We try the best we can to live a good life knowing that this brings happiness now and in the hereafter. If we’ve been truly repentant, Christ will take care of the rest. But we have to trust Him at His word.
I think this pretty much encapsulates the LDS position.
Regards,
MG
I too think sums up the LDS position. I think of the word "faith" as "trust," and faith only being as good as the object of that faith.
"The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth. He fulfills the desire of those who fear him; he also hears their cry and saves them.” Psalm 145:18-19 ESV
Gadianton, tell me about the Holy Spirit. If you'd like. :)
"The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth. He fulfills the desire of those who fear him; he also hears their cry and saves them.” Psalm 145:18-19 ESV
...we submit totally our will to God having been convicted in our mind and heart of our sinfulness and accept Christ as our personal Savior in an authentic conversion relying totally on Christ' substitonary sacrifice for all the sins, past present and future of all mankind- having done that with a sincere heart our names are written in the lamb's book of life never to be erased- thus assuring us of eternal security/salvation.
Where does repentance fit? Is it part of the process of being saved in Christ? Without continued repentance of sin throughout life can you reach your potential?
Secondly, as far as I know all the mainstream Christian viewpoints allow that someone who has at one time been saved can slip back into being unsaved, and that this may even happen many times. The minimal spark can be lost—and regained.
Not according to Hebrews 6:4-6
“For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.”
"The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth. He fulfills the desire of those who fear him; he also hears their cry and saves them.” Psalm 145:18-19 ESV
Those verses do kind of sound as though if you fall away you don't get a second chance. Very few Christians take that seriously, though, in my experience and reading. "There's always a chance, you can still repent" is the all but invariable answer in practice. Google finds a lot of commentaries that support that approach by explaining these verses away in various ways.
Those verses do kind of sound as though if you fall away you don't get a second chance. Very few Christians take that seriously, though, in my experience and reading. "There's always a chance, you can still repent" is the all but invariable answer in practice. Google finds a lot of commentaries that support that approach by explaining these verses away in various ways.
agreeing with you Physics Guy I could add...
It is agreed upon in Christian experience and in scripture that all Christians sin and must do a repenting renewal. Is that is what is called backslidding? It is not clear that that sort of backsliding is what the author of Hebrews is referring to. It sounds like a sort of falling away could exist from which people do not repent. They no longer wish to return ,unable to so wish. Hebrews continues saying but I hope this does not represent you,people are encouraged to renew themselves. I take it to mean if you are seeking renewal and repentance than you are not the one who has passed beyond renewal.
Where does repentance fit? Is it part of the process of being saved in Christ? Without continued repentance of sin throughout life can you reach your potential?