Trib’s Second Article on John Dehlin

[Moksha]

The salaries for the trillion-dollar LDS Corporation average only $350,000 per year. Of course, Dehlin did not receive a million-dollar signing bonus or Dr. Peterson's air miles, but still, should he be making that much money as a man of the cloth?


ByTW, I feel bummed out by the demise of the once-independent voice of the Salt Lake Tribune. It puts a lot of pressure on the Salt Lake Weekly to be the non-Mormon print media in Utah.

[Moksha]

You and Rosebud both filed baseless claims due to personal grievances and that’s why they both went nowhere.

Kudos to John for not giving you two any more attention.

My complaints did not go nowhere. The AG opened up an investigation, the results of which are unclear, because John conveniently refuses to share them. The IRS very well could have fined John/Open Stories Foundation and we would never know.

There are more politics at work here than any spurned water cooler romance vendetta. Dehlin is cutting into the Corporation's bottom line by encouraging its customers to leave and the Corporation is firing a pot shot across his bow in response. It is mild compared to what street war can be like in the olive oil business.

[jpatterson]

. James you conveniently leave out all sorts of things. For instance yes John Dehlin's salary is quite high for running a non-profit of the size in the religion category, but it's also mostly been a one man show producing podcasts and online content and the board looked at the compensation podcasters made which frankly for the size of Mormon Stories makes John Dehlin's compensation quite middle of the road at best. The board already released the information you are demanding, it's right there for anyone who isn't blinded by their hate of John Dehlin.

Comparing a non-profit leader’s salary to the for-profit sector is…well…dumb. Someone on Reddit made the laughable comparison to John’s salary being okay because Joe Rogan makes millions of dollars off his podcast deal with Spotify.

Look, Mormon Stories is a nice little podcast, but John is no Joe Rogan. He’s not even up there with someone like Kristen Tippets, the host of On Being. She blows him out of the water.

Coincidentally, Kristen Tippets makes $292k per year so you’re probably saying “Oh well see, John’s appropriately compensated then.” Not so fast. The On Being Foundation brings in a whopping $6 million a year in revenue while Open Stories Foundation struggles to pull in half a mil.

So Tippets’ salary costs her foundation around 5% of its revenue to keep the podcast going. Open Stories Foundation pays John an extraordinary 45%(!!!) of its total revenues. Almost HALF of the money coming into the non-profit foundation goes directly into John’s pocket.

This is the part where you’re saying “We’ll John IS Mormon Stories!” I gotta tell you, I understand you may not be familiar with the non-profit world but I can tell you, that’s not the way it’s supposed to work.

Not to mention the fact that John said in the SL Trib article that the board “generously” bumped his salary up to around what he was making at Microsoft. That’s an insane way to determine someone’s compensation. Comparing Open Stories Foundation to Microsoft??? Really?

The board already released the information you are demanding, it's right there for anyone who isn't blinded by their hate of John Dehlin.

I would love for you to provide links to where the board released detailed information on how they arrived at John’s salary. I’ll wait.

I’ll also repeat that the AG’s office very well could have fined or otherwise sanctioned John/Open Stories Foundation and we wouldn’t know because they won’t release the results of the investigation. Same with the IRS.

The reality is no amount of proof, facts and industry standards will be able to convince someone like you that John has done anything out of sorts. You’re practicing Dehlin Apologetics and I get it. But you’re practicing the same mental gymnastics the DCP crowd does and you can’t even admit it.

[Dwight]

Pot calling the kettle black. I am hardly a JD apologist, and you look silly trying to paint me as such, or the many other people here who don't necessarily like JD. Ad hominem to dismiss us as JD apologists, but logical fallacies are the tool of the apologist, and you firmly follow their rule book. When we point out your raging bias it is cause you clearly are blinded by it and quickly throw logic out the window. I think your attacks here have caused people to defend and like JD more than they would have otherwise here. Mission accomplished, I guess.

I'm not going to serve what the Open Stories Foundation board has said about compensation to you on a silver platter. You would just rage and throw it on the floor and stomp on it like a toddler angry that you are yet again wrong. It exists on the web, it's really easy to google, top hit if you use the right terms. Now it would be ridiculous if the podcasts did nothing but enrich the podcasters, but the podcasts, the content is part of fulfilling the mission of Open Stories Foundation. You may not agree with it, you may not like it, but it's completely legal and okay.

I am not comparing Joe Rogan or anyone on that level. I have listened to podcasts for a long time, longer than most, and some are in the ballpark of Mormon Stories and they roughly talk about what they make, or it can be generalized. Mormon Stories is really not that big in what it pays the talent, indeed in my field of IT there is a general rule of thumb that working for a non-profit means maybe scaling your salary 80% of market, and Open Stories Foundation is even more than that cause other podcasters make north of 90% of what their podcasts bring in.

JD said it was generous and he thinks it's great that in 2022 he is making what he was making in 2004 at Microsoft. He says it, it seems, from a place of being like hey I'm back to where I was at the start of this journey, and I sacrificed in-between, some will agree and empathize with the point. I and many financially literate people go into their annual review and expect a cost of living increase every year just as the absolute floor, and then something on top for being more experienced and a better employee. Personally I am making about 3 times what I was in 2004. I think it's you should be making 50% more this year than 2004 just to have kept up with inflation.

I'll await this magic proof, facts and industry standards that back you up, but everything I have seen and researched backs up my position. I am not going around and cherry picking different numbers, but looking at the industry as a whole and in aggregate which is very valid to do. I am not saying JD has been completely above board in what I would want of choose to do, nor has his "apologists" on this board, but I fail to see any proof he has run afoul of the law or IRS. You would have us believe that what JD has done is so egregious that he shouldn't be allowed to do it anymore, and yet there he is trucking along. So the evidence would suggest my world view on JD is closer to reality than your own, and "no amount of proof, facts and industry standards will be able to convince you."

[Binger]

. James you conveniently leave out all sorts of things. For instance yes John Dehlin's salary is quite high for running a non-profit of the size in the religion category, but it's also mostly been a one man show producing podcasts and online content and the board looked at the compensation podcasters made which frankly for the size of Mormon Stories makes John Dehlin's compensation quite middle of the road at best. The board already released the information you are demanding, it's right there for anyone who isn't blinded by their hate of John Dehlin.

Comparing a non-profit leader’s salary to the for-profit sector is…well…dumb. Someone on Reddit made the laughable comparison to John’s salary being okay because Joe Rogan makes millions of dollars off his podcast deal with Spotify.

Look, Mormon Stories is a nice little podcast, but John is no Joe Rogan. He’s not even up there with someone like Kristen Tippets, the host of On Being. She blows him out of the water.

Coincidentally, Kristen Tippets makes $292k per year so you’re probably saying “Oh well see, John’s appropriately compensated then.” Not so fast. The On Being Foundation brings in a whopping $6 million a year in revenue while Open Stories Foundation struggles to pull in half a mil.

So Tippets’ salary costs her foundation around 5% of its revenue to keep the podcast going. Open Stories Foundation pays John an extraordinary 45%(!!!) of its total revenues. Almost HALF of the money coming into the non-profit foundation goes directly into John’s pocket.

This is the part where you’re saying “We’ll John IS Mormon Stories!” I gotta tell you, I understand you may not be familiar with the non-profit world but I can tell you, that’s not the way it’s supposed to work.

Not to mention the fact that John said in the SL Trib article that the board “generously” bumped his salary up to around what he was making at Microsoft. That’s an insane way to determine someone’s compensation. Comparing Open Stories Foundation to Microsoft??? Really?

The board already released the information you are demanding, it's right there for anyone who isn't blinded by their hate of John Dehlin.

I would love for you to provide links to where the board released detailed information on how they arrived at John’s salary. I’ll wait.

I’ll also repeat that the AG’s office very well could have fined or otherwise sanctioned John/Open Stories Foundation and we wouldn’t know because they won’t release the results of the investigation. Same with the IRS.

The reality is no amount of proof, facts and industry standards will be able to convince someone like you that John has done anything out of sorts. You’re practicing Dehlin Apologetics and I get it. But you’re practicing the same mental gymnastics the DCP crowd does and you can’t even admit it.

Jpatterson man. Dude, you gotta watch the Gemstones. You just gotta.

That will help you so much, man. It is just gonna put the religion, savior and get y'ass on TV (YouTube) business into perfect perspective for you.

[dastardly stem]

. James you conveniently leave out all sorts of things. For instance yes John Dehlin's salary is quite high for running a non-profit of the size in the religion category, but it's also mostly been a one man show producing podcasts and online content and the board looked at the compensation podcasters made which frankly for the size of Mormon Stories makes John Dehlin's compensation quite middle of the road at best. The board already released the information you are demanding, it's right there for anyone who isn't blinded by their hate of John Dehlin.

Comparing a non-profit leader’s salary to the for-profit sector is…well…dumb. Someone on Reddit made the laughable comparison to John’s salary being okay because Joe Rogan makes millions of dollars off his podcast deal with Spotify.

Look, Mormon Stories is a nice little podcast, but John is no Joe Rogan. He’s not even up there with someone like Kristen Tippets, the host of On Being. She blows him out of the water.

Coincidentally, Kristen Tippets makes $292k per year so you’re probably saying “Oh well see, John’s appropriately compensated then.” Not so fast. The On Being Foundation brings in a whopping $6 million a year in revenue while Open Stories Foundation struggles to pull in half a mil.

So Tippets’ salary costs her foundation around 5% of its revenue to keep the podcast going. Open Stories Foundation pays John an extraordinary 45%(!!!) of its total revenues. Almost HALF of the money coming into the non-profit foundation goes directly into John’s pocket.

This is the part where you’re saying “We’ll John IS Mormon Stories!” I gotta tell you, I understand you may not be familiar with the non-profit world but I can tell you, that’s not the way it’s supposed to work.

Not to mention the fact that John said in the SL Trib article that the board “generously” bumped his salary up to around what he was making at Microsoft. That’s an insane way to determine someone’s compensation. Comparing Open Stories Foundation to Microsoft??? Really?

The board already released the information you are demanding, it's right there for anyone who isn't blinded by their hate of John Dehlin.

I would love for you to provide links to where the board released detailed information on how they arrived at John’s salary. I’ll wait.

I’ll also repeat that the AG’s office very well could have fined or otherwise sanctioned John/Open Stories Foundation and we wouldn’t know because they won’t release the results of the investigation. Same with the IRS.

The reality is no amount of proof, facts and industry standards will be able to convince someone like you that John has done anything out of sorts. You’re practicing Dehlin Apologetics and I get it. But you’re practicing the same mental gymnastics the DCP crowd does and you can’t even admit it.

Dwight is exactly right here, Jpatterson. You've thrown out a few reasons why you don't like how John's running things, but you haven't shown one reason to think anything he's done is illegal. You're every word is leading any half interested party to conclude you have a nasty axe to grind and, believe me, it's sad to watch.

you reported him. Nothing's happened and he got to say how above the board he is in response. There's not much more you can do, it seems to me. You don't like weaselly people getting richer? How you gonna stop that? That's what weaselly people do.

[Kishkumen]

If Open Stories was forced to pay a fine for something they did not handle properly, then hopefully they have learned something from this investigation and will avoid these missteps in the future.

But, I have to say, the jpatterson, KK, Rosebud patrol is highly suspect in terms of their collective motivations for going after John in the way they are. I detect more than a desire to see that rules and laws are properly enforced. Rather, this looks like an internal squabble about who the purest representatives of (ex-)Mormon progressivism truly are.

The Rosebud Brigade wants to put itself out there as the righteous alternative to John Dehlin, but they focus on tearing John Dehlin down. What are they doing to show that they deserve to take his place as the leading voice of (ex-)Mormon progressivism? Everything I have seen of Kate Kelly and Rosebud since their respective connections to Ordain Women and Open Stories has been a terrible flop. Teaming up with the clowns of Midnight Mormons hasn't helped a whole lot in bolstering their credibility.

I think that revenge is at the heart of the Rosebud Brigade's attacks, and so this is what they are getting out of it. Midnight Mormons have more mud to sling, and, by and large, Mormon Stories, though harassed, keeps on trucking.

Honestly, I am not sure this is the best outcome, but given the kind of work that the Rosebud Brigade and Midnight Mormons are investing in their respective (lame) efforts, what more can we expect? Let's see people who spend their time working on real advances for (ex-)Mormon women or LDS people who do a serious and credible job of defending the faith, and then we'll see things to be hopeful about.

As it stands, this is just an ephemeral clown show. Revenge through harassment? Sure. Lasting contributions? Nope.

[Binger]

If Open Stories was forced to pay a fine for something they did not handle properly, then hopefully they have learned something from this investigation and will avoid these missteps in the future.

But, I have to say, the jpatterson, KK, Rosebud patrol is highly suspect in terms of their collective motivations for going after John in the way they are. I detect more than a desire to see that rules and laws are properly enforced. Rather, this looks like an internal squabble about who the purest representatives of (ex-)Mormon progressivism truly are.

The Rosebud Brigade wants to put itself out there as the righteous alternative to John Dehlin, but they focus on tearing John Dehlin down. What are they doing to show that they deserve to take his place as the leading voice of (ex-)Mormon progressivism? Everything I have seen of Kate Kelly and Rosebud since their respective connections to Ordain Women and Open Stories has been a terrible flop. Teaming up with the clowns of Midnight Mormons hasn't helped a whole lot in bolstering their credibility.

I think that revenge is at the heart of the Rosebud Brigade's attacks, and so this is what they are getting out of it. Midnight Mormons have more mud to sling, and, by and large, Mormon Stories, though harassed, keeps on trucking.

Honestly, I am not sure this is the best outcome, but given the kind of work that the Rosebud Brigade and Midnight Mormons are investing in their respective (lame) efforts, what more can we expect? Let's see people who spend their time working on real advances for (ex-)Mormon women or LDS people who do a serious and credible job of defending the faith, and then we'll see things to be hopeful about.

As it stands, this is just an ephemeral clown show. Revenge through harassment? Sure. Lasting contributions? Nope.

It all feels like folks trying to speak truth to power, but they got no truth and they ain't speaking to actual power and they are doing it without much power.

I agree with Kishkumen's logic here, but I think that it is more about the players he mentioned not getting what they wanted so they are looking for explanations for why their disappointment is not their fault.

I am not a lawyer and not experienced in IRS reports. I have no clue what the so-called whistleblower stands to gain in an IRS complaint. And I do not know why an IRS complaint would be addressed by a non-IRS agent or agency. It all sounds like sour milk and spilled grapes. But, hell do I know?

[Kishkumen]

Let’s grant that these people genuinely see John as corrupt and unworthy of both the attention and money he gets. Maybe the lesson that needs to be learned by these crusaders is that the bar was/is lower for being acceptable to the law and the community than they believe it should be. Let’s also grant that these folks are willing to fight a little dirty to take John down a peg or two in the hope that worthier women become the new spokespersons of the (ex-)Mormon progressive movement.

Given all that, this still looks like a huge waste of time. Where is Kate Kelly’s wildly successful podcast or Rosebud’s blockbuster life coaching service? If Midnight Mormons can ask what JD has to offer that compares favorably to the LDS Church, then what does the Rosebud Brigade have to offer (ex-)Mormon progressives? Aren’t audience members and Thrive participants voting in favor of JD’s efforts overwhelmingly? We can’t say they are objectively right to do so, but, hey, it’s their freedom to cast about looking for help and choose what looks helpful.

[Binger]

Let’s grant that these people genuinely see John as corrupt and unworthy of both the attention and money he gets. Maybe the lesson that needs to be learned by these crusaders is that the bar was/is lower for being acceptable to the law and the community than they believe it should be. Let’s also grant that these folks are willing to fight a little dirty to take John down a peg or two in the hope that worthier women become the new spokespersons of the (ex-)Mormon progressive movement.

Given all that, this still looks like a huge waste of time. Where is Kate Kelly’s wildly successful podcast or Rosebud’s blockbuster life coaching service? If Midnight Mormons can ask what JD has to offer that compares favorably to the LDS Church, then what does the Rosebud Brigade have to offer (ex-)Mormon progressives? Aren’t audience members and Thrive participants voting in favor of JD’s efforts overwhelmingly? We can’t say they are objectively right to do so, but, hey, it’s their freedom to cast about looking for help and choose what looks helpful.

Yep. I do not think much of all these players. But like you are addressing here, the action hurdle for me is whether or not I want to consume or donate. Making a criminal complaint or a report to an agency has a lot more hurdles than the severity of my concerned feelings or my feelings-based compensation index.