McConkie's theology really was ridiculously skewed wasn't it... what a narrow minded bigoted fundamentalist theology he pontificated on with his own authoritah!bill4long wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:00 pmEven Bruce McConkie tacitly admitted this in his Our Relationship with the Lord devotional talk that he gave at BYU in March of 1982, during the time when Glenn Pace wrote that people should have a personal relationship with Jesus. (God forbid!)Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:06 amproof of the silliness of Holy Ghost communication and testimony.
Pace, who was a member of the First Quorum of Seventy, had written a book, What it Means to Know Christ. McConkie did not care for some of the advice given in this book, which included that people "should center their lives in Christ... and develop their own personal relationship with Him." Bzzzzz! McConkie shot back that members "should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ", and called Pace's work, "an unwise book."
McConkie uttered all kinds of goofy things in that talk. It is worth reading in it's entirely. I'll quote a few things germane to the topic at hand:
"Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the [Christian] sectarian world and even among up about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus...
"It follows that the devil would rather spread false doctrine about God and the Godhead and induce false feelings with reference to any one of them, than almost any other thing he could do...
"I am well aware that some who have prayed for endless hours feel they have a special and personal relationship with Christ that they never had before...
"I wonder if it is not part of Lucifer's system to make people feel they are special friends of Jesus..."
Whaaaaaat? Lucifer making people feel things? Good and uplifting things... about Jesus? Yowzer!
The irony is thick. I have no idea how much self-awareness Conkie had about his own theological position, but he managed to undercut the very subjective epistemology that prospective members are advised to employ in obtaining a "testimony" about the Book of Mormon (Moroni's Promise), Joseph Smith's status as prophet, and the validity of the "restored" church, not to mention D&C 9 and all the business about burning bosoms and "feel[ing] that it is right" when seeking answers to spiritual questions.
Pardon the rejoinder, Bruce, but I wonder if it is not part of Lucifer's system to make people feel the Book of Mormon is true, that Joe was a true prophet, and that the LDS church is 'God's' true church.
What's good for the goose.
The entire Mormon edifice rests on having some kind of good feeling or witness from "the Holy Ghost" about the Mormon truth claims, starting with the Book of Mormon and "Moroni's Promise." If Lucifer can make people have positive "spiritual experiences", and good and uplifting feelings, then how does one determine whether an experience is from the Holy Ghost or Lucifer or some other source (such as one's own subconscious)? If my bosom burns after praying about the Book of Mormon, how do I know it's not Lucifer making me feel this way?
One answer that I've seen is the whole business in James about "asking God for wisdom", etc. However, there are two problems here. One, it assumes James is the authentic "word of God." How do we know that? Secondly, James's advice about obtaining wisdom does not mention anything about spiritual experiences. People obtain wisdom all the time through various sources. Maybe God indeed does grant wisdom when asked, but one never knows from whence the wisdom cometh. It could be from a book, from the TV, from a dog barking at just the right time. If you get some kind of spiritual experience you're right back to where you started with regards to the source and reliability of the experience. "Well, God wouldn't allow me to be deceived!" Time and time again people, in various religions, including Mormonism, including myself, have received spiritual experiences in answer to prayer, only to later find out the spiritual experience was undeniably bogus when confronted with cold hard facts of objective reality. Why would God allow Lucifer to give someone good, special, sacred, positive, uplifting feelings about having a special relationship to Jesus after much prayer and supplication? Unfortunately, McConkie isn't around for a cross-examination on the matter. Perhaps an apologist can field the question.
Spiritual experiences are no reliable criteria of truth. The foundation of Mormonism is in ruins.
(Curiously, according to the Book of Mormon, the Nephites had no problem with praying to Jesus and worshipping him. Jesus didn't seem to mind at all, and didn't correct them. 3 Nephi 11:16-17, 19:18,30. Maybe Bruce missed that part.)
I remember as a TBM being totally miffed at the McConkie/England battle, and losing respect for BOTH of them to a point. For McConkie's cocky arrogant approach and attitude of OBEY ME SLAVE CHILD, I ALONE TEACH ***YOU*** THE DOCTRINE AND BY GOD DAMN ALMIGHTY YOU ABSOLUTELY WILL OBEY MY EVERY SINGLE WORD, and for England's caving in with his child like timid approach YES DADDY I AM SO SORRY FOR THINKING IT THROUGH ON MY OWN WHEN ONLY YOU ARE CORRECT AND I NEVER WILL BE attitude. appallingly disgusting on both their parts.
