Kevin, Msnobody asked YOU to articulate what you thought the Evangelical Gospel was. Why are you not answering her? Asking her a question to her question then demanding she answer you is not appropriate exchange of ideas. YOU first, then she.KevinSim wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:03 pmMsNobody, I made this post Tuesday night, and here it is Friday morning, and you haven't responded. Are you planning on commenting on my answer?KevinSim wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 3:39 amFirst I should say that I am much more interested in God than I am in the Bible, so by no means am I an expert on the Bible. Also, just by observation it appears that the Bible says different things to different people, so I'm not convinced that there is just one biblical gospel. That said, the message of Paul seems to be that because of what Jesus did we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works. But I'm not aware of Paul ever saying what that salvation is from, what we're being saved from.
I am not one of those Latter-day Saints that believes we believe the same gospel as Evangelicals, only plus some. I'm not entirely sure what Evangelicals believe the gospel is, but I'd like to learn, so please feel free to educate me.
Of course, I can hardly talk, considering I'm the one that only makes posts one or two days each week! Still, I'm curious whether you're an infrequent poster like me, or whether for some reason I've silenced you.
Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
To be perfectly honest, Philo Sofee, I don't know what the Evangelical Gospel is. I thought I'd said that. If I had to guess, I'd say that that Gospel is that if someone accepts Jesus as lord of her/his life, then that someone won't end up going to Hell in the afterlife. This is my impression of what the Evangelical Gospel is, but I admit that I may not understand it correctly, so feel free to educate me.Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:13 amKevin, Msnobody asked YOU to articulate what you thought the Evangelical Gospel was. Why are you not answering her? Asking her a question to her question then demanding she answer you is not appropriate exchange of ideas. YOU first, then she.
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
Then honestly and Joseph Smith logically you have little ability to compare to what you think is true. Apparently it appears to me that Jesus in the Bible means almost nothing to you to invest any kind of significant time into learning because your so busy in your own religious beliefs. If it is one thing I know, based on experience, the Evangelicals are madly in love with the Bible and use it amazingly in so very many cases I have looked into. You see why it sort of makes what you say on the blase side, instead of stellar testimonial solidity when you say you know the Gospel you believe in is true as against others? If you don't know others, you have no idea whether yours is up to snuff. That's just simple logic.KevinSim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:36 pmTo be perfectly honest, Philo Sofee, I don't know what the Evangelical Gospel is. I thought I'd said that. If I had to guess, I'd say that that Gospel is that if someone accepts Jesus as lord of her/his life, then that someone won't end up going to Hell in the afterlife. This is my impression of what the Evangelical Gospel is, but I admit that I may not understand it correctly, so feel free to educate me.Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:13 amKevin, Msnobody asked YOU to articulate what you thought the Evangelical Gospel was. Why are you not answering her? Asking her a question to her question then demanding she answer you is not appropriate exchange of ideas. YOU first, then she.
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
To be fair most people don’t know a lot about other religions. The gospel according to all Christian sects is Jesus is lord, died for sins, rose again and requires or suggests belief in him as a means to salvation. The gospel doesn’t seem much different between Mormons and evangelicals, unless we use the term the gospel as meaning all beliefs held by a religion.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
I think Msnobody is just trying to open some discussion on the difference but if I was Kevin I might feel like some unpleasant trap is being set up. After all unless he is an unusual sort of Mormon he understands himself as a Christian. He likely believes Jesus is lord came to earth, lived with us died as atonement for sin and was raised from the dead opening the way for the rest of us to be raised from the dead. He likely believes that in the Spirit we are enabled to live new life with God. I do not think these statements would be a bad summary of evangelical understanding of the gospel. However anybody might notice that there is clear variety in the world in how different people see how the working out of faith in love actual works. (sanctification not justification just to be clear) Some people join monasteries others try to live honestly and help others. Mormons might see church activities and temple promises as part of that.msnobody wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:18 amI have a favor to ask. I would like for you to articulate the biblical gospel as understood by evangelical Christians. I ask this because I want to know how you understand it. Over the years, I've gotten the idea that many Latter-day Saints believe that they believe the same gospel as evangelicals, but plus some. I also get the idea that many Latter-day Saints do not understand why the "plus some," in evangelical thought, places LDS as outside Christianity.
Would you mind articulating the biblical gospel to help me better understand?
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
I’ll get back to you soon. I had a very draining week at work and am enjoying our daughter being here for a visit.KevinSim wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:03 pmMsNobody, I made this post Tuesday night, and here it is Friday morning, and you haven't responded. Are you planning on commenting on my answer?KevinSim wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 3:39 amFirst I should say that I am much more interested in God than I am in the Bible, so by no means am I an expert on the Bible. Also, just by observation it appears that the Bible says different things to different people, so I'm not convinced that there is just one biblical gospel. That said, the message of Paul seems to be that because of what Jesus did we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works. But I'm not aware of Paul ever saying what that salvation is from, what we're being saved from.
I am not one of those Latter-day Saints that believes we believe the same gospel as Evangelicals, only plus some. I'm not entirely sure what Evangelicals believe the gospel is, but I'd like to learn, so please feel free to educate me.
Of course, I can hardly talk, considering I'm the one that only makes posts one or two days each week! Still, I'm curious whether you're an infrequent poster like me, or whether for some reason I've silenced you.
The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession... The LORD set his love on you and chose you... The LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery. Deut. 7
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
What does saved by grace through faith, and not by works mean? The reason I ask is because, as I understand it, atonement, salvation, and grace have very different meanings in Mormonism.KevinSim wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 3:39 amFirst I should say that I am much more interested in God than I am in the Bible, so by no means am I an expert on the Bible. Also, just by observation it appears that the Bible says different things to different people, so I'm not convinced that there is just one biblical gospel. That said, the message of Paul seems to be that because of what Jesus did we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works. But I'm not aware of Paul ever saying what that salvation is from, what we're being saved from.
I am not one of those Latter-day Saints that believes we believe the same gospel as Evangelicals, only plus some. I'm not entirely sure what Evangelicals believe the gospel is, but I'd like to learn, so please feel free to educate me.
It is my understanding that Mormonism teaches through the atonement, Jesus conquered physical death so that persons can enter Heavenly Father's presence to be judged. Then, in order to stay in Heavenly Father's presence and live with him for all eternity, one must receive the temple ordinances and show their worthiness by keeping the commandments. Basically, giving us more chances to triumph over our own sins. It is also my understanding that Mormonism teaches that salvation is equivalent to resurrection and the only free gift in Mormonism. It is my understanding that grace in Mormonism is the power given by God to save ourselves, but only after we expend our own best efforts. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and by obedience to the principles and ordinances of the gospel, men and women can become clean from sin and overcome spiritual death.
I think I would pretty much agree with what Huckleberry said about what we are saved from.
The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession... The LORD set his love on you and chose you... The LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery. Deut. 7
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
I never tire of former Latter-day Saints telling me of God's grace. God gave me a gift once, where He silenced me during a two hour and forty-seven minute phone call where I was told of God's grace and a parable explained. This brought absolute joy to my heart. I will never tire of hearing someone marvel in God's grace.Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:42 pmThen honestly and Joseph Smith logically you have little ability to compare to what you think is true. Apparently it appears to me that Jesus in the Bible means almost nothing to you to invest any kind of significant time into learning because your so busy in your own religious beliefs. If it is one thing I know, based on experience, the Evangelicals are madly in love with the Bible and use it amazingly in so very many cases I have looked into. You see why it sort of makes what you say on the blase side, instead of stellar testimonial solidity when you say you know the Gospel you believe in is true as against others? If you don't know others, you have no idea whether yours is up to snuff. That's just simple logic.KevinSim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:36 pm
To be perfectly honest, Philo Sofee, I don't know what the Evangelical Gospel is. I thought I'd said that. If I had to guess, I'd say that that Gospel is that if someone accepts Jesus as lord of her/his life, then that someone won't end up going to Hell in the afterlife. This is my impression of what the Evangelical Gospel is, but I admit that I may not understand it correctly, so feel free to educate me.
The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession... The LORD set his love on you and chose you... The LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery. Deut. 7
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
I don't know what it means, MsNobody. If we're saved by X through Y, then what does that say about X and Y? What's the difference between the words by and through? What's the difference between being saved by something and being saved through something?
Well, it was certainly important to Jesus that we triumph over our sins. At one point He said that those who sinned were the servants of sin. It's hard to imagine Jesus liberating us without liberating us from that nasty taskmaster.msnobody wrote:Then, in order to stay in Heavenly Father's presence and live with him for all eternity, one must receive the temple ordinances and show their worthiness by keeping the commandments. Basically, giving us more chances to triumph over our own sins.
Huckleberry said we're saved from a lot of things. When Paul said we were saved by grace and not works, which of those things was Paul saying we were saved from then?msnobody wrote:I think I would pretty much agree with what Huckleberry said about what we are saved from.
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Re: Question for KevinSim- biblical gospel articulation request
Philo Sofee, does the Bible tell the truth about what Jesus said, and about what Jesus did, and in general about Jesus?Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:42 pmApparently it appears to me that Jesus in the Bible means almost nothing to you to invest any kind of significant time into learning because your so busy in your own religious beliefs.