Relatives of Utah family mass shooting release statement

[Dr. Shades]

I am all for taking out all the second amendment people and putting them in a gunny sack and tossing them in the ocean, in a shark infested area, then add some hamburger as chum.

Do you realize that, as an advocate of mass murder, this makes you infinitely worse than "the second amendment people" themselves?

[Gadianton]

Do you realize that, as an advocate of mass murder, this makes you infinitely worse than "the second amendment people" themselves?

I think that binger is 100% aware of that fact when trying to show the hypocrisy or bad arguments of those of us who oppose gun ownership.

For instance, claiming that "knives are too slow" when in fact the Idaho incident says otherwise, and 2As routinely bring up knives as a substitution murder weapon.

[Advocate]

The only thing that made sense to me is that the husband, the perpetrator, removed all the guns from the house before returning to do the deed because "all adults had been properly trained" to defend themselves against him, should they have had access.

Assuming this is right, then it just goes to show you how little guns do to protect people. Aside from proper training, you have to really have a lot of luck on your side to set the scene up in such a way that the guns become useful.

Your comment doesn't make sense. If the adults "had been properly trained" but had no access to firearms, then it doesn't logically follow that guns do little to protect people.

Perhaps we could say that their "proper training" was not adequate or proper because they allowed themselves to be in a position where they didn't have access to firearms. The article doesn't state what sort of training they had taken.

It sounds to me like the husband planned the murder in advance and removed the guns from the home so the wife and mother-in-law wouldn't have access to them. The timeline on this is that the wife had recently (within a couple weeks) filed for divorce. I've never been through a divorce, but I suspect it is a very difficult ordeal and I imagine buying a new firearm (because the husband had removed all of them) in the midst of the divorce probably wasn't high on the wife's to-do list.

[dastardly stem]

I can't imagine, really, what different outcome might have resulted if there was a gun in the house. If someone has a gun ready to go and the targeted person, or one of the targeted people, knows of a gun, perhaps locked in a safe, how likely will that second gun factor into the demise of the shooter's purpose? To me it seems extraordinarily unlikely the locked up gun would be of any use. You'd have to have, as Gad put, quite a bit of luck on your side for that gun in the house to be useful. Surely,no doubt, the locked up gun may in some extremely lucky scenario play a positive factor and save one or more of the lives...but that seems to be precisely Gad's point. Some lucky unfolding of circumstances would have to go just right for the shooter's plan to be foiled to some degree or another. I'd think lucky circumstances would have to unfold just right for, say, the wife to grab a knife and get him before he shoots. But that didn't happen either.

Oddly the families' statement is itself a political statement on a topic they ask no one exploit. That was sadly weird sounding political paranoia.

[Gadianton]

Advocate / A-Mike / binger (without separating the persons nor dividing the substance),

You have to look at the whole picture. The main, number 1 reasons why guns are pointless for protection is the element of surprise the attacker has. "I had a gun...but!" isn't good enough. Just look at all the trained R-Texas-2A officers at Uvalde who were powerless to do anything about one skinny shooter with no experience. There's 10 "buts" for every scenario.

what different outcome might have resulted if there was a gun in the house

Right, taking them out of the house was a precautionary measure. If he walked around with a silencer at 2 AM and targeted the most capable adults first, they would have been eliminated quickly even with a gun under the pillow.

[Poly G Porter]

Big Pharma wont allow the release of which psychotropic meds he was using.

There is a correlation between mass shootings and widespread psychotropic prescriptions.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

[GiordanoBruno]

The world's most tone-deaf obituary:

Michael Orwin Haight was born on January 7, 1980 in Seattle, Washington to Robin and Brenda Haight. After his dad finished dental school in 1981, the family moved to Cedar City, Utah.

In his youth, Michael loved spending time participating in city league baseball, basketball, soccer, various outdoor and scouting activities. He achieved the rank of Eagle Scout.

Michael excelled at everything he did, graduating from Cedar High School in 1998 where he was the Sterling scholar in business. He was very involved in various sports and activities.

Michael spent the summer after graduation working in Alaska in a fish processing plant. His leadership skills, values of honest hard work and determination quickly led him to be a line manager and over a crew of 10-12 men.

Michael was called and served a full-time mission to Porto Alegre South, Brazil for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. He loved the people he met on his mission and had many fond memories of his time spent there.

After his mission, Michael began classes at Southern Utah University, studying business. He graduated with his Bachelor’s degree from SUU in 2004 where he was named the Outstanding Finance Student for the School of Business. During this time, he met Tausha Earl in their student ward. They were married in the St. George Temple on May 10, 2003. Together they welcomed 5 children into their family: Macie Lynn, Briley Ann, Ammon Michael, Sienna Belle, and Gavin Drew. Each of these children were truly a cherished miracle to them. Michael made it a point to spend quality time with each and every one of his children. Michael enjoyed making memories with the family. He spent many evenings and Saturdays coaching the children’s city league sporting teams, attending the children’s concerts at school, going on side-by-side rides, doing home-improvement projects, sledding and much more.

Michael lived a life of service. Whether it was serving in the church or in the community, he was willing to help with whatever was needed.

Michael owned and operated a successful insurance agency receiving many awards and honors for his achievements. Many of his clients loved and appreciated the care and attention he gave to them. He recently sold his business to allow more flexibility to spend time with his family.

Michael is survived by his mother Brenda Haight, siblings: Bryan, Tamara (Mike) Twitchell, Jennifer (Doug) Kerksiek and Grandparents Orwin and Velda Gubler. He is also survived by many aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and cousins.

Funeral services will be held privately. Family and friends will be notified of the details. The family would like to express a special thank you to those in the community who have reached out with their love and support and all who have helped in any way. You are very much appreciated.

[KevinSim]

I am all for taking out all the second amendment people and putting them in a gunny sack and tossing them in the ocean, in a shark infested area, then add some hamburger as chum.

Do you realize that, as an advocate of mass murder, this makes you infinitely worse than "the second amendment people" themselves?

I agree Dr. Shades. Like Alas, second amendment people frustrate me, but I advocate a more peaceful solution. The Second Amendment is an amendment to the US Constitution, just like the Eighteenth Amendment was, and can be repealed, just like the Eighteenth was. Would that that day would come soon. Unfortunately, the chances of my remedy happening are about as big in today's legal system, as the chances of Alas' remedy happening.

[Dr. Shades]

Michael enjoyed making memories with the family.

And then he made the family into memories.