One of the things I find odd and always have is that the church teaches 1st Nephi basically covers what I understood to be Lehi because they knew the pages would be lost. This I find to be quite absurd and have always felt was just a strange thing to do. Nephi wouldn't copy the same plates he has been carrying around and I am pretty sure he would have been too busy travelling in the wilderness to feel the need to duplicate.
The two categories of responses here will be believing and non-believing. I will provide one possibility in each category.
1. Believing: Lehi was not the only literate and visionary person in the family, and Nephi started his own record because God inspired him to do that. It was fortunate that there was a second record lying around for Joseph to translate.
2. Non-believing: Joseph lost the translation and knew he couldn't reproduce it, so he came up with the idea of another record to provide a plausible cover for his inability to reproduce the first translation verbatim.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
Does that mean he knew he was going to create a church before he finished the Book of Mormon?
Joseph seems to me to be the kind of person who wanted to be in a club in which he was in charge. He was not so good sticking to other people's rules. I think some kind of organization was always the plan, since he really did like to have people around him who would admire him and follow him. The treasure digging is a good example. Whether the project was going to be para-Masonic, a business venture, or a church evolved over time.
I can visualise that but I do wonder though, how easy was it then to start that kind of venture? Because to create something as big as it is today just to lead a club and for it to become something I think that must take some serious skill and determination.
I can visualise that but I do wonder though, how easy was it then to start that kind of venture? Because to create something as big as it is today just to lead a club and for it to become something I think that must take some serious skill and determination.
Joseph Smith was definitely a driven, ambitious, and brilliant person. Love him or hate him, it is hard to deny the talent and amazing accomplishment.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
One of the things I find odd and always have is that the church teaches 1st Nephi basically covers what I understood to be Lehi because they knew the pages would be lost. This I find to be quite absurd and have always felt was just a strange thing to do. Nephi wouldn't copy the same plates he has been carrying around and I am pretty sure he would have been too busy travelling in the wilderness to feel the need to duplicate.
The two categories of responses here will be believing and non-believing. I will provide one possibility in each category.
1. Believing: Lehi was not the only literate and visionary person in the family, and Nephi started his own record because God inspired him to do that. It was fortunate that there was a second record lying around for Joseph to translate.
2. Non-believing: Joseph lost the translation and knew he couldn't reproduce it, so he came up with the idea of another record to provide a plausible cover for his inability to reproduce the first translation verbatim.
Thanks, these thoughts crossed my mind.
Why didn't Joseph Smith make a copy for Martin Harris to take instead of letting him have the only one? Did he not have foresight to wonder what would happen?
Why didn't Joseph Smith make a copy for Martin Harris to take instead of letting him have the only one? Did he not have foresight to wonder what would happen?
Good question. If you read Don's book, you will learn that there was considerably more material than what we think of when we envision 116 pages. It would have taken quite some time to copy all of that by hand, which is the only option he really had. And, I think multiple copies meant multiple opportunities to lose control of the work. He definitely should not have caved in to Martin, but then he might have lost Martin's support, which he desperately needed.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
Why didn't Joseph Smith make a copy for Martin Harris to take instead of letting him have the only one? Did he not have foresight to wonder what would happen?
Good question. If you read Don's book, you will learn that there was considerably more material than what we think of when we envision 116 pages. It would have taken quite some time to copy all of that by hand, which is the only option he really had. And, I think multiple copies meant multiple opportunities to lose control of the work. He definitely should not have caved in to Martin, but then he might have lost Martin's support, which he desperately needed.
I can visualise that but I do wonder though, how easy was it then to start that kind of venture? Because to create something as big as it is today just to lead a club and for it to become something I think that must take some serious skill and determination.
Joseph Smith was definitely a driven, ambitious, and brilliant person. Love him or hate him, it is hard to deny the talent and amazing accomplishment.
Do you think he was capable of producing the Book of Mormon on his own?
Do you think he was capable of producing the Book of Mormon on his own?
Possibly, but he certainly did not come up with all the ideas on his own. The end product definitely has his unique stamp on it, however.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
Does that mean he knew he was going to create a church before he finished the Book of Mormon?
Joseph seems to me to be the kind of person who wanted to be in a club in which he was in charge. He was not so good sticking to other people's rules. I think some kind of organization was always the plan, since he really did like to have people around him who would admire him and follow him. The treasure digging is a good example. Whether the project was going to be para-Masonic, a business venture, or a church evolved over time.
This is actually a good insight here. Joseph did want to be in charge, and loved to be loved. I mean, don't we all?
Joseph seems to me to be the kind of person who wanted to be in a club in which he was in charge. He was not so good sticking to other people's rules. I think some kind of organization was always the plan, since he really did like to have people around him who would admire him and follow him. The treasure digging is a good example. Whether the project was going to be para-Masonic, a business venture, or a church evolved over time.
This is actually a good insight here. Joseph did want to be in charge, and loved to be loved. I mean, don't we all?
In the real world I prefer to be invisible. I'm more open and talkative on here because I can't be seen. Could Joseph Smith have been a bit of a narcissist?
