African Book of Mormon translations starting to remove “skin of blackness” and other racist phraseology

[Kishkumen]

Thank you for making this thread, IHAQ. I found myself too busy wrapping up the semester to focus on this, but it is a great topic for a thread.

[Shulem]

Thank you for making this thread, IHAQ. I found myself too busy wrapping up the semester to focus on this, but it is a great topic for a thread.

Will you please leave your books for a moment and comment on what I've just now discovered that confuses me to no end. I don't see how this is possible for people in New Zealand in which Professor Poop Peterson preached.

Please, help? Are we witnessing the Church purging this from foreign languages? What the hell is going on?

E kua tuku aia i te taumaa ki rungao ia raua, koia oki e taumaa kino roa no ta raua au ara. E i na oki, i akaketaketa ana raua i to raua ngakau iaia, i riro ei mei te toka pakari; i na oki, i mua ana, kua teatea to ratou pakiri, e te purotu e te manea; kia kore ra ratou e inangaroia e toku ra iti tangata, kua akakerekere te Atu, ko te Atua, i to ratou pakiri ra.

And he laid a yoke upon them, a very grievous yoke for their sins. And they hardened their hearts against him, and they became as a flint; and before, their flesh was white, and their hair was white, and their hair was white; so that my people would not love them, the Lord God made their flesh hard.

[Shulem]

So in its translating of the Book of Mormon for distribution in Africa, the Church is taking away the references to “skin of blackness” even though the native languages would allow for an equivalent phrasing.

I'm just too Goddamn tired right now.

Can you run translator checks when you get time?

Select a Language

Then select the Book of Mormon and get the chapter and verse in the sidebar to pull up the foreign language. It's easy.

[I Have Questions]

So in its translating of the Book of Mormon for distribution in Africa, the Church is taking away the references to “skin of blackness” even though the native languages would allow for an equivalent phrasing.

I'm just too Goddamn tired right now.

Can you run translator checks when you get time?

Select a Language

Then select the Book of Mormon and get the chapter and verse in the sidebar to pull up the foreign language. It's easy.

Shulem, the problem is that there are multiple ways to translate phrases into different languages. What's important is how the Church translation department does it. Which is probably more involved that using a simple online translating tool. Dan could share some insight on that.

[Shulem]

Shulem, the problem is that there are multiple ways to translate phrases into different languages. What's important is how the Church translation department does it. Which is probably more involved that using a simple online translating tool. Dan could share some insight on that.

Right, I hear you. I really don't know much about it other than to take the characters and plug them in. Other than that, we need expert guidance in this matter to ensure a correct translation is given.

[Kishkumen]

Shulem, the problem is that there are multiple ways to translate phrases into different languages. What's important is how the Church translation department does it. Which is probably more involved that using a simple online translating tool. Dan could share some insight on that.

Exactly. Metaphors vary according to culture and language. Something may make no sense to us and yet be perfectly meaningful and rational to the community it is pitched to.

[Shulem]

Shulem, the problem is that there are multiple ways to translate phrases into different languages. What's important is how the Church translation department does it. Which is probably more involved that using a simple online translating tool. Dan could share some insight on that.

Exactly. Metaphors vary according to culture and language. Something may make no sense to us and yet be perfectly meaningful and rational to the community it is pitched to.

Fair enough and I get what you're saying. But I think the Church is up to something and RFM is right about the Church making some sneaky changes to select verses. I see Google translator as helpful but not necessarily entirely accurate or complete. I'm afraid this is out of my pay grade and am not sure how to proceed but hope others more qualified would pick up the ball. With that said, I enjoyed cutting verses from the Church website and plugging them into the translator and seeing the surprise. It's kind of magical! Kind of like getting colorful marshmallow surprises out of the Lucky Charm box.

I just don't know how to proceed. I'm tired. It must be that time of year.

I miss Moksha. We all do.

Sigh.

[Chap]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the discussion, but when Smith opposed people with black skin to people who were "white and delightsome" I am pretty sure, given the society he lived in, that he was referring to people whose skin was of a black colour and people whose skin was of a light colour, the white colour being seen as a more desirable colour of skin than the black colour.

Maybe there exist some languages in the world that cannot manage to express the concepts of black skin and white skin, but I tend to think it unlikely. If the distinction is not made in translations of the Book of Mormon into other languages, my bet is that it has happened because the translator had been told to avoid indicating directly to African readers that according to Mormon scripture they had the 'not so good' skin colour.

[Shulem]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the discussion, but when Smith opposed people with black skin to people who were "white and delightsome" I am pretty sure, given the society he lived in, that he was referring to people whose skin was of a black colour and people whose skin was of a light colour, the white colour being seen as a more desirable colour of skin than the black colour.

Maybe there exist some languages in the world that cannot manage to express the concepts of black skin and white skin, but I tend to think it unlikely. If the distinction is not made in translations of the Book of Mormon into other languages, my bet is that it has happened because the translator had been told to avoid indicating directly to African readers that according to Mormon scripture they had the 'not so good' skin colour.

Skin and color are the operative words that describe the physical nature of the Book of Mormon curse. If those words are omitted in new translations, then it changes everything. Prior to 1978, a black man could not hold the priesthood or enter a temple solely on the basis he was black (dark skin) because it identified him as being of Ham's lineage. So, it was always, always, about skin color.

[I Have Questions]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the discussion, but when Smith opposed people with black skin to people who were "white and delightsome" I am pretty sure, given the society he lived in, that he was referring to people whose skin was of a black colour and people whose skin was of a light colour, the white colour being seen as a more desirable colour of skin than the black colour.

Maybe there exist some languages in the world that cannot manage to express the concepts of black skin and white skin, but I tend to think it unlikely. If the distinction is not made in translations of the Book of Mormon into other languages, my bet is that it has happened because the translator had been told to avoid indicating directly to African readers that according to Mormon scripture they had the 'not so good' skin colour.

The Book of Mormon contains some very specific references to God cursing people for unrighteousness behaviour, and turning the skin colour of those unrighteous people to black. For instance:
"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 5?lang=eng

But what appears to be happening to passages like the one above in copies of The Book of Mormon in the translations into languages of black Africans, is that they are translating in such a way as to remove reference to black skin being the sign of a curse from God.