Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

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Shulem
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by Shulem »

Dumb Dan wrote:I’m struck, though, by the fact that — and, so that all will understand, I need to confess right now that I’m a believer who accepts the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as genuine prophets and apostles — the Lord plainly seems to have permitted the ban on ordaining blacks to the priesthood to continue until June 1978. However it originated, that seems to me significant. And, while I’m not clear on how the prohibition began, I’m absolutely clear on how it ended: with a breathtaking revelation to the then-leaders of the Church.
Dan, you are blowing chunky gaslight right out of your fat ass!

Don't blame God for permitting the ban to continue in the Cult of the Latter-day Saints. It was the racist men who ran the Church that permitted it and ordered its continuance until such time as the inspiration of the world found a better way.

You dumb ass. You're full of crap.

:twisted:
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

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Well, between publicly posting and then mocking lynching photos, attacking Martin Luther King Jr. several times, and stating that Black people should thank slavery for their U.S. citizenship, the Afore’s track record isn't exactly a shining light on a hill. The Afore is more of a large beacon for deep-seated prejudice.

Folks, you really can't make this stuff up.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

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As far as I'm aware, the statistics stand as such:

Number of black actors in Witnesses(2021) : 0
Number of black actors in Six Days in August(2024): 0
Number of black actors in Becoming Brigham: 0
Number of black authors published in Interpreter: 0
Number of black volunteers working for Interpreter: 0

It's really easy to avoid racism when you have essentially zero interaction with people of that race.

Based on a cursory search. I believe Tarik D. LaCour is one of the few people of color who has spoken at any Mopologetic conference. He's since forsaken the LDS religion and returned to the holy mother church. Notably, Tarik is front and center on Daniel Peterson's Facebook friends list. I suppose this may make up for the statistical oversights above.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

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Adam Stokes and LaCour have been published in the journal. Stokes is not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. LaCour mentioned the ban in a recent Substack interview here.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by Tom »

I suggest that Dallin Oaks ask God whether the priesthood and temple ban were divinely mandated (and the reasons for the ban if divinely mandated), whether God told church leaders not to rescind it (and why if that is the case), whether God told Spencer Kimball to rescind it (and why if that is the case), and whether the church should apologize for the ban (and why if that is the case). Oaks should publish the response as a revelation.

Incidentally, I’m amused the Afore was apparently reading an apostate publication such as Dialogue when he was a teenager. That’s a precocious teenager—especially one in a part-member family. But I suppose Added Upon, Mormon Doctrine, and the scriptures weren’t that interesting.
Last edited by Tom on Fri May 29, 2026 7:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

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Tom wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 6:30 pm
Adam Stokes and LaCour have been published in the journal. Stokes is not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. LaCour mentioned the ban in a recent Substack interview here.
LaCour pulled no punches when addressing the evils of the priesthood ban:
Question: Was there anything that you found implausible when you were investigating the LDS Church?

I found the priesthood and temple ban on people of African descent to be both implausible and morally evil. I never believed it was of God, and I don’t now. That said, I don’t see it as a fundamental question. The ban does not prevent the First Vision from occurring or render the Book of Mormon ahistorical.

Question: Even so, the ban raises questions regarding common LDS beliefs about prophetic reliability, does it not?

If you think the ban was wrong, then you have to hold that prophets can greatly err and cause great harm. You can’t just accept something as being true because of a title next to someone’s name. Nonsense remains nonsense no matter who says it. Prophets are like the senses; even if reliable, they can be mistaken and cost you greatly.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by Shulem »

Tom wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 7:19 pm
I suggest that Dallin Oaks ask God whether the priesthood and temple ban were divinely mandated....
Nope.

Dallin Oaks is deranged and brainwashed beyond help. He is unable to unfold or unpack truth because his mind is lost in a state of total disrepair. Let him finish his business as the head of the Mormon cult and then off he goes...
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by I Have Questions »

drumdude wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 6:03 pm
As far as I'm aware, the statistics stand as such:

Number of black actors in Witnesses(2021) : 0
Number of black actors in Six Days in August(2024): 0
Number of black actors in Becoming Brigham: 0
Number of black authors published in Interpreter: 0
Number of black volunteers working for Interpreter: 0

It's really easy to avoid racism when you have essentially zero interaction with people of that race.

Based on a cursory search. I believe Tarik D. LaCour is one of the few people of color who has spoken at any Mopologetic conference. He's since forsaken the LDS religion and returned to the holy mother church. Notably, Tarik is front and center on Daniel Peterson's Facebook friends list. I suppose this may make up for the statistical oversights above.
This is the problem that the Church is propagating. To correct over a hundred years of institutional racism you can't just stop the proactively racist policies and think that's job done. The problem is too ingrained within the root and branch population of the institution. To correct the problem you have to initiate policies of positive discrimination. The lack of proactive discrimination in the Church is an ongoing problem - not proactively seeking out black candidates for Apostleship and giving them preference over white candidates means here we are, nearly 50 years later, without a single black Apostle. And that's not just a PR problem, it's an institutional problem because it signals to members that black people are still inferior. Which is why we are still seeing members behaving in racist ways. The Church needs to lead by example and actively appoint black Apostles. Until that happens, organisations like Interpreter will follow that example and not actively seek to improve the diversity of their institutional hierarchy by proactively seeking out black speakers and black volunteers and black contributors, and giving those people more of a shout. It's simply not enough to just say "okay, we won't be racist anymore". That doesn't address the problem that's been created. The Church needs to be actively anti-racist, which is different to just not being racist anymore. This is a good piece on the problem...
Racism is broadly defined as a systemic hierarchy based on race that has become enmeshed with our institutions, policies, and culture, in a way that benefits white people and keeps traditionally marginalized individuals in a position of disadvantage. This sense of subordination is maintained by individual actions, sociocultural norms, and institutional structures.

It is critical to understand that there are two overarching categories of racism: passive and active racism. Active racism includes explicit actions taken in order to maintain the system of racism and the continued oppression of those in targeted racial and ethnic groups. This may look like overt advocacy for the preservation of the position and “rights” of the members of the agent group (e.g. Ku Klux Klan members holding a public rally to promote white supremacy).

On the other hand, passive racism is less obvious, yet just as malicious. These are implicit beliefs, attitudes, and actions that inherently contribute to the maintenance of racism, often stemming from unconscious/implicit biases. Microaggressions are commonly grouped under the umbrella of passive racism; specific examples include phrases such as “I don’t see color” and “you speak good English for a [insert racial/ethnic group member here]” as well as perpetuating the myth of meritocracy, assumption of intelligence/deviancy/etc., pathologizing cultural communication styles, or simply acting as a bystander in the face of injustice.

Therefore, we must be committed to embodying acts of active anti-racism in exchange of passive anti-racism. It has never been enough to simply verbalize a stance of anti-racism, and it will never be enough. We must be able to recognize and act on the fact that individual liberation cannot exist without collective liberation. Here is a visual that clearly distinguishes between passive and active anti-racism, as well as differences between ally behavior and anti-racist advocacy: It is necessary to not only claim anti-racism, but to continually work towards equity among and within communities, either through policy and advocacy work, or through conscious dismantling of internalized narratives rooted in bias and prejudice.
An example of being actively anti-racist would be to remove the racist passages from the Book of Mormon. Ending the Priesthood Ban but leaving those passages within the canon is an example of passive racism. The Church as an organisation is still being passively racist because it isn't taking the actions necessary to become anti-racist. Just look at the recent Apostle appointments - racism is alive and well within the First Presidency and Quorum of 12 Apostles, even if they are blind to it.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by Rivendale »

I Have Questions wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 10:29 pm
drumdude wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 6:03 pm
As far as I'm aware, the statistics stand as such:

Number of black actors in Witnesses(2021) : 0
Number of black actors in Six Days in August(2024): 0
Number of black actors in Becoming Brigham: 0
Number of black authors published in Interpreter: 0
Number of black volunteers working for Interpreter: 0

It's really easy to avoid racism when you have essentially zero interaction with people of that race.

Based on a cursory search. I believe Tarik D. LaCour is one of the few people of color who has spoken at any Mopologetic conference. He's since forsaken the LDS religion and returned to the holy mother church. Notably, Tarik is front and center on Daniel Peterson's Facebook friends list. I suppose this may make up for the statistical oversights above.
This is the problem that the Church is propagating. To correct over a hundred years of institutional racism you can't just stop the proactively racist policies and think that's job done. The problem is too ingrained within the root and branch population of the institution. To correct the problem you have to initiate policies of positive discrimination. The lack of proactive discrimination in the Church is an ongoing problem - not proactively seeking out black candidates for Apostleship and giving them preference over white candidates means here we are, nearly 50 years later, without a single black Apostle. And that's not just a PR problem, it's an institutional problem because it signals to members that black people are still inferior. Which is why we are still seeing members behaving in racist ways. The Church needs to lead by example and actively appoint black Apostles. Until that happens, organisations like Interpreter will follow that example and not actively seek to improve the diversity of their institutional hierarchy by proactively seeking out black speakers and black volunteers and black contributors, and giving those people more of a shout. It's simply not enough to just say "okay, we won't be racist anymore". That doesn't address the problem that's been created. The Church needs to be actively anti-racist, which is different to just not being racist anymore. This is a good piece on the problem...
Racism is broadly defined as a systemic hierarchy based on race that has become enmeshed with our institutions, policies, and culture, in a way that benefits white people and keeps traditionally marginalized individuals in a position of disadvantage. This sense of subordination is maintained by individual actions, sociocultural norms, and institutional structures.

It is critical to understand that there are two overarching categories of racism: passive and active racism. Active racism includes explicit actions taken in order to maintain the system of racism and the continued oppression of those in targeted racial and ethnic groups. This may look like overt advocacy for the preservation of the position and “rights” of the members of the agent group (e.g. Ku Klux Klan members holding a public rally to promote white supremacy).

On the other hand, passive racism is less obvious, yet just as malicious. These are implicit beliefs, attitudes, and actions that inherently contribute to the maintenance of racism, often stemming from unconscious/implicit biases. Microaggressions are commonly grouped under the umbrella of passive racism; specific examples include phrases such as “I don’t see color” and “you speak good English for a [insert racial/ethnic group member here]” as well as perpetuating the myth of meritocracy, assumption of intelligence/deviancy/etc., pathologizing cultural communication styles, or simply acting as a bystander in the face of injustice.

Therefore, we must be committed to embodying acts of active anti-racism in exchange of passive anti-racism. It has never been enough to simply verbalize a stance of anti-racism, and it will never be enough. We must be able to recognize and act on the fact that individual liberation cannot exist without collective liberation. Here is a visual that clearly distinguishes between passive and active anti-racism, as well as differences between ally behavior and anti-racist advocacy: It is necessary to not only claim anti-racism, but to continually work towards equity among and within communities, either through policy and advocacy work, or through conscious dismantling of internalized narratives rooted in bias and prejudice.
An example of being actively anti-racist would be to remove the racist passages from the Book of Mormon. Ending the Priesthood Ban but leaving those passages within the canon is an example of passive racism. The Church as an organisation is still being passively racist because it isn't taking the actions necessary to become anti-racist. Just look at the recent Apostle appointments - racism is alive and well within the First Presidency and Quorum of 12 Apostles, even if they are blind to it.
We must stamp out and be pro active rather than passive. Okay Dan. Go to any rural area in Utah and listen to the dialog of some of the Clive Bundy types of Mormons that run many of the small towns. Go shut them down and threaten to call their bishops who are their best friends. Listen to the demonization of the Mexican immigrants and then show up and gulp down paper cup water and munch on 3 day old wonder bread. Listen to the back handed comments about the pligs and do interrupt and inform them that started with tcojcolds. See how long your bravado lasts. I promise if there are bowls of goulash nearby you won't have a dry spot on your body.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

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I Have Questions wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 8:43 am
In what is probably an attempt at combating what he perceived to be a diminishing interest in him by this board, Peterson raises the hot button topic of the Priesthood Ban, and attempts to gaslight his reading and himself with the following…
I hope that I’ve made it clear enough and mentioned often enough that I found the pre-1978 priesthood ban baffling and, to say the least of it, awkward, and that I was absolutely delighted when it was rescinded. The day that I heard about President Spencer W. Kimball’s priesthood revelation — I was in Zollikofen, Switzerland, at the time, slowly returning from six months in the Middle East — was one of the happiest days of my life. I glowed for weeks thereafter. (Of course, I’ve had a few critics claim that I’m lying about this, just as I lie about almost everything else. I was, they insinuate, entirely on board with the ban because I’m both servile and a racist. Or something to that effect. There seems no point in insisting that I’m telling the truth, though; once they’ve decided that I’m an inveterate liar, they’re not likely to accept any claim that I make. Oh well.)
Oh well indeed. You see Dan, you cannot wave your hands and pretend that you were a stand up guy about it at the time. You weren’t. You raised your hand to the square to sustain those leaders who maintained the ban on black men and women entering the temple, and the ban on black men holding the Priesthood. By not raising a dissenting vote you are as culpable for it as the Church is.

Will you now publicly apologise for voting to sustain the Priesthood Ban in the years prior to June 1978? Your post is cheap gaslighting unless or until you are willing to do that.

Personally I have already apologised on this board for sustaining it by voting in favour of sustaining the leadership of that time period. Yes I was quite young at the time. Not an adult. But I’m still embarrassed that I didn’t have enough about me to recognise that it was wrong and to say so, and to take a stand at the time. Howabout you Dan?
That said, however, I tend to resist confident assertions that the priesthood policy was, simply, the product of racism, that it was an evil mistake, and that the Church should therefore apologize for it. I have no theory of its origin to offer, no theological justification to provide for it, no apologetic to make on its behalf. I simply point to the fact that at least some Church leaders had hoped to rescind it earlier but felt themselves prevented (by the Lord himself) from doing so.
Quite the washing your hands of it there Dan. With such flimsy and meaningless fencesitting, is it any wonder that your fellow members in Utah are still exhibiting racism towards black members? Is it any wonder there are no black Apostles? How many black men or women are presenting at this year’s Interpreter Conference Dan?
There were people back in the day unsure how to react to the situation. Peterson's situation is hardly surprising. So one might wonder what you did in 1970 to confront the church leaders in their position?

I was dubious about the racial stuff but until I dropped belief in the church I did not feel I had a foundation to say their view was wrong even though it smelled wrong.
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