Was Mormonism basically the thing the American West had to define itself against?

[The Before]

Sure. Another fringe group that had to be absorbed.

That’s quite an oversimplification, Limnor! “Had to be absorbed” is encapsulating a lot of stuff there. Absorption usually means some traits get normalized, some get suppressed, and some get reinterpreted. I’m interested in what Mormonism had to become in order to stop reading as fringe.

[Limnor]

Sure. Another fringe group that had to be absorbed.

That’s quite an oversimplification, Limnor! “Had to be absorbed” is encapsulating a lot of stuff there. Absorption usually means some traits get normalized, some get suppressed, and some get reinterpreted. I’m interested in what Mormonism had to become in order to stop reading as fringe.

It had to cancel polygamy.

[The Before]

That’s quite an oversimplification, Limnor! “Had to be absorbed” is encapsulating a lot of stuff there. Absorption usually means some traits get normalized, some get suppressed, and some get reinterpreted. I’m interested in what Mormonism had to become in order to stop reading as fringe.

It had to cancel polygamy.

And in your view, that’s was it? Cancel polygamy, and done?

[Limnor]

I wouldn’t say “done,” but polygamy was obviously the big one for statehood. I’d say Mormonism remains somewhat fringe, but polygamy was first in line to be abandoned to assimilate.

[The Before]

I wouldn’t say “done,” but polygamy was obviously the big one for statehood. I’d say Mormonism remains somewhat fringe, but polygamy was first in line to be abandoned to assimilate.

Polygamy is the obvious institutional example, but I’m interested less in the concession itself than in the identity produced by the concession. Assimilation isn’t just subtraction, stop doing X and become normal. It also requires a new account of who you are, what parts of the past are remembered or domesticated, and what kinds of difference remain permissible. Mormonism’s transition from “alien” to recognizably American is interesting to me as a transformation of identity, not just a change in marital practice.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

I wouldn’t say “done,” but polygamy was obviously the big one for statehood. I’d say Mormonism remains somewhat fringe, but polygamy was first in line to be abandoned to assimilate.

Polygamy is the obvious institutional example, but I’m interested less in the concession itself than in the identity produced by the concession. Assimilation isn’t just subtraction, stop doing X and become normal. It also requires a new account of who you are, what parts of the past are remembered or domesticated, and what kinds of difference remain permissible. Mormonism’s transition from “alien” to recognizably American is interesting to me as a transformation of identity, not just a change in marital practice.

Huh?

[Limnor]

Huh?

Ditto. The original point was something like Mormonism was the “other” that served to define American normalcy but now it’s Mormonism changed itself to fit American normalcy.

[Marcus]

...Mormonism’s transition from “alien” to recognizably American...

I don't think this is what happened. In the same manner the title, "Was Mormonism basically the thing the American West had to define itself against?" ascribes far too large a role to this small religion. in my opinion, the "American West" was a much larger phenomenon and outside of Utah and some little jello pockets i doubt most westerners were even aware of the religion, let alone felt it was something against which to define itself.

One exception that i'm aware of is when Mormons are remembered for the crimes they committed. I was at first surprised when a family member recently introduced a new friend from Arkansas and mentioned that they were very aware of the Mormon religion. He then explained that their family were long time Arkansas residents, and their knowledge of the Mormon religion was due to the impact of the Mountain Meadows Massacre on their Arkansas state and family history. The surviving orphans had been returned to their Arkansas relatives two years after the massacre, and multiple monuments and remembrances in Arkansas have documented the history since then.

[The Before]

...Mormonism’s transition from “alien” to recognizably American...

I don't think this is what happened. In the same manner the title, "Was Mormonism basically the thing the American West had to define itself against?" ascribes far too large a role to this small religion. in my opinion, the "American West" was a much larger phenomenon and outside of Utah and some little jello pockets i doubt most westerners were even aware of the religion, let alone felt it was something against which to define itself.

One exception that i'm aware of is when Mormons are remembered for the crimes they committed. I was at first surprised when a family member recently introduced a new friend from Arkansas and mentioned that they were very aware of the Mormon religion. He then explained that their family were long time Arkansas residents, and their knowledge of the Mormon religion was due to the impact of the Mountain Meadows Massacre on their Arkansas state and family history. The surviving orphans had been returned to their Arkansas relatives two years after the massacre, and multiple monuments and remembrances in Arkansas have documented the history since then.

I don’t mean that ordinary westerners from Arizona to Oregon were walking around defining themselves against Mormonism. That would be much too strong.

What I’m interested in is the American West as an imagined cultural category, I.e. the West produced in political rhetoric, journalism, literature, law, and national myth. In that arena, Mormonism could matter far beyond its demographic size because it condensed several anxieties at once: polygamy, theocracy, communalism, religious authority, sexual nonconformity, and the question of whether a people could be geographically American while remaining culturally “other.”

Mormonism became one especially useful boundary case through which Americans argued about what kinds of difference the West, and the nation, could absorb.

Your Mountain Meadows example actually fits that pretty well. The event itself was local and historical, but its memory traveled. The question I’m after is what happens when Mormonism becomes a symbolic object in other people’s stories about violence, civilization, loyalty, marriage, religion, or Americanness.

[The Before]

Huh?

Ditto. The original point was something like Mormonism was the “other” that served to define American normalcy but now it’s Mormonism changed itself to fit American normalcy.

Go a little deeper, Limnor. Those are not competing claims. They’re two sides of the same historical process. A group can first be constructed as an “other” against which normalcy is defined, and then later alter itself in response to the pressures created by that boundary.