Joseph Smith: Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

[_charity]

Beastie, all we were talking about was different versions of reality. If you can say that Joseph Smith was delusional because he had visions, etc., it ought to be fair to turn it around and at least say people are denying reality (and I never said delusional) ifr Joseph's visions were real.

Once again. I try so hard to be patient with you even when it seems that you are deliberately avoiding the issue, and even when you engage in silly diversions, like having a fit over my use of the word "delusion" (which we all know is so starkly different than "living in one's own concocted world.")

By your own admission, faith is necessary for belief. The reason faith is necessary is because there is a lack of empirical evidence. Lacking empirical evidence, no one can be accused of being crazy or "living in a concocted world" for not believing in something that can only be believed in with faith.

I will say once again, because you don't read my posts very carefully, that I NEVER said people who didn't believe Joseph Smith were crazy. They are living in denial IF Joseph Smith really had visions and revelations. And it really doesn't matter what the reason is they deny. Some people don't believe in angels at all. Some people believe in angels, but don't believe Joseph ever saw one. Some people believe in angels and that while Joseph may have seen one, he fell from grace in 1831 and everything after that was bunk. The reason isn't important.

IF Joseph was really a prophet from 1819 until his death, then those people who refuse to accept the TRUTH are denying reality.

When you get on the other side, you can pick which one to use for your defense. I, myself, would suggest you throw yourself on the mercy of the court. God is all knowing. He will know the truth from all the rationalizations. I plan on doing that when I am confronted with all my imperfections at the judgement bar.

[_beastie]

I will say once again, because you don't read my posts very carefully, that I NEVER said people who didn't believe Joseph Smith were crazy.

Charity’s statements on this thread:

From page 3

If Joseph Smith was a prophet, then all the people who refsue to believe him are the ones who are not mentally healthy because they are denying reality and living in a concocted world of their own.

from page 4

This is really too funny. All the pretended outrage that I called 99.99% of the world crazy. You people ought to look at your Paranoia Meters once in a while. And take aspirin or something.

Figure it out. This whole thread has been about a supposed psychological disorder for Joseph Smith. The basis for the diganosis is that he had delusions of grandeur, thought he saw angels, had visions, talked to God, etc. And as non-believers you reject his explanations and descriptions of his own experiences as being false, even delusional. But these attempts to vilify him fall down around your ears IF they are really true.

Now, leave your paranoia at the door, and considere the statement hypothetically. IF there really are prophets, a God who talks to mortals, gold plates, an angel Moroni, and Joseph Smith merely reported his real life experiences, then he was living in the real world. He wasn't delusional. He was just telling the truth.

Keep up here. IF he was describing the real world (angels, visions, God talking to him) then those who say there are no such things as angels, visions, etc. are rejecting the real world. To some degree, any degree, that people refuse to acknowledge the real world they are a little off balance, a little crazy. The more you deny the real world, the more crazy you are.

What I have posted above is just plain old logic. You know logical arguments always contain IF. I hope you noticed the big read IFs. And yes, people can function fairly well in the world, even if they are a little crazy. Whether or not you think Joseph Smith was a prophet probably has very little to do with your day to day functioning.

And now for my personal opinion: If you reject that reality, you are going to have a really serious "well, duh" experience when you get on the other side. Smiley face.

Are you sure I’m the one who doesn’t read your posts carefully?

This is what you have said on this thread:

IF the church is true, and Joseph Smith was telling the truth (and we all know you are absolutely convinced that is the case), then people who reject his claims are “mentally unhealthy” and “denying reality” and “living in a concocted world of their own.” People who refuse to acknowledge the real world are a “little crazy”, and the more they deny, the “more crazy you are.”

What are you doing, Charity? First you have a fit over the word delusional, although that clearly means the same thing as “living in one’s own concocted world”. Now you’re denying that you called people who reject Joseph Smith’ claims a “little crazy”, if his claims are true.

Strike my question. I know exactly what you are doing. You’re still engaging in the exact same diversion and refusing to address the real issue, which is:

The reason that people deny this reality is because it is a hidden reality. We know it is a hidden reality because faith is required to believe in it.

This is why, even if Joseph Smith’ claims were true, people who reject these claims aren’t “mentally unhealthy”, and “denying reality” and “living in a concocted world of their own.” Or a “little crazy”.