Former Oklahoma City Temple President Apostatized

[_harmony]

I'm not obliged to embrace every aspect of the Old Testament.

Then you don't see the Old Testament as scripture?

[_Calculus Crusader]

I know Christianity better than you, too. That's why I've never flirted with the nonsense that is Jesus mythicism.

Ego was never a problem for you, CC. Humility is, though.

I apologize for what I said to you (or, rather, the way I said it.) Still, I was disappointed to see you flirting with that b.s.

[_Calculus Crusader]

CC,you wrote:

I am a non-trinitarian, old earth Christian.

"Old earth Christian" sounds ineresting. Will you please explain? (Of course you know Joseph Smith was a non-traditional-trinitarian too.) We might have more in common than not???
And that in spite of my respect for Spong... Then again, if you're a believer in blood atonement, there might be little except our humaness...
Roger
*
*

I accept that the age of the earth is measured in billions of years; I do not necessary accept the common descent of apes and humans. As for Smith, yes, he was a non-trinitarian, but his monolatry is even less acceptable.

I am certain that God (the Father) and Jesus Christ are not homoousios. However, I debate with myself whether the Logos is a reification or not, which bears on whether Jesus Christ is pre-existent.

[_antishock8]

Christian Church Fraudulent Characteristics:

17 - Ritual Human Sacrifice

There is no such thing in Christianity. Jesus was slaughtered, dipsh*t.

16 - Rape in the Bible

Certainly not in the New Testament, and even in the Old Testament, rape is not advocated. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

On and on and on...

15 - Sanctioned Murder in the Bible

Putting whole towns under the sword is only advocated in the Old Testament. Well, there you go. You believe in that. That makes your belief system fraudulent. Anyway. Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

14 - Sanctioned Slavery in the Bible

Yes. In the Old Testament and pseudo-Pauline epistles. Well, there you go. You believe in that. That makes your belief system fraudulent.

13 - Noah's Ark

What about it? It's impossible. It's in your scriptures. That makes your "church" a fraud. Congrats.

12 - Adam & Eve impossibility

What about it? Everything about it is ridiculous.. Just like your "church". It's a fraud.

11 - 6 day creation

Six periods, anyway. What about it? No. 6 days.

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

Like I told you before lunkhead, you haven't seen me upset. Was that a threat? Because you can bring it West Coast, if you're man enough.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

I have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created by God. Evolution? You know... It's a fact.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

This does not apply to me, lunkhead. You can go against your own Bible, but it's clear there's a triumvirate. Wishful think for you, apostate.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

I'm not obliged to embrace every aspect of the Old Testament. Well,that's convenient. But that makes you a fraud within a fraud then, apostate.

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

I'm not sure I believe in the Virgin Birth, since only Matthew and Luke mention it, but in any event we humans have had "virgin births" for, what, three decades now?

Holy sh*t. Fraud. Apostate.

5 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

A hell of their own making, yes. As I said, you aren't loving, and neither is your bloody religion. You guys love death. You love violence. It's crazy. That's a fraud if I ever saw one.

4 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise...

"Modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics" do not substantially conflict with Christianity.

...some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

I am not inclined to accept glossolalia. First smart thing you've ever posted on the Internet, West Coast.

3 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

Not quite. Holy sh*t. Apostate.

2 - You don't like homosexuals because the Bible told you so.

There is also natural law. (q.v.) Bigot. Fraud.

1 - You're an asshole.

A lovable one, yes. You embrace your evil. Love it. So very Christian of you... Whatever variation you've concocted in your head to accommodate your personality.

Is that the best you can come up with?

No. I have more, West Coast.

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker?

Answer: CC's God(s).

[_Calculus Crusader]

I'm not obliged to embrace every aspect of the Old Testament.

Then you don't see the Old Testament as scripture?

I view the Old Testament more as backdrop for the New Testament. For me, it is secondary scripture and is to be subordinated to the New Testament. I do not expect the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews to get everything correct before the advent of Jesus Christ.

[_antishock8]

I view the Old Testament more as backdrop for the New Testament. For me, it is secondary scripture and is to be subordinated to the New Testament. I do not expect the Hebrews/Israelites/Jews to get everything correct before the advent of Jesus Christ.

Ok. So in West Coast's world, the Mormons, da Joos, and most of Christianity are "demonstrable frauds" unlike his airtight religion, whatever it is he's made up in his head. Phew. And I thought discussing Mormonism was akin to nailing pudding to a wall...

[_dartagnan]

Now I'm starting to see why antishock likes Harris so much. They both exhibit a propensity to butcher the Bible for their own alarmist, "we need to kill them before they kill us," purposes. He actually thinks this shows intelligence instead of idiocy and bigotry. Case in point...

antishock: Christianity promotes human sacrifice
Calclus Crusader: No it doesn't.
antishock: Jesus was slaughtered.



Do we really need to explain that to slaughter is not synonymous with to sacrifice, and therefore antishock's comeback is really just a weak dodge?

antishock is clearly referring to "ritualistic" human sacrifice, as in tossing babies into volcanos to appease the gods. There is nothing ritualistic about Jesus sacrificing himself by allowing himself to be killed. No Christian in their right mind would ever dream of engaging in human sacrifice. But antishock would have us believe it is just part of the "Christian ritual." Most reasonable thinkers will see this for what it is: deliberate deception.

[_harmony]

antishock: Christianity promotes human sacrifice
Calclus Crusader: No it doesn't.
antishock: Jesus was slaughtered.

I thought he was referring to Abraham/Isaac. I've been wrong before though.

[_Calculus Crusader]

Jesus was slaughtered, dipsh*t.

Yes, by the Roman authorities at the instigation of the Jewish elite, dip****.

16 - Rape in the Bible

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

On and on and on...

Those are from the Old Testament. The only point of dispute is whether those verses count as advocacy of rape.

15 - Sanctioned Murder in the Bible

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

That's a parable, lunkhead.

That makes your belief system fraudulent.

No, lunkhead, it does not.

[Noah's Ark is] impossible. It's in your scriptures. That makes your "church" a fraud. Congrats.

Sorry, lunkhead, but no.

12 - Adam & Eve impossibility

Everything about it is ridiculous.. Just like your "church". It's a fraud.

I have already addressed this, ye of the exceedingly small intelligence.

11 - 6 day creation

No. 6 days.

Possibly. Six periods also works. What about it?

Was that a threat? Because you can bring it West Coast, if you're man enough.

No, it was a statement of fact, stupid.

Evolution? You know... It's a fact.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

You can go against your own Bible, but it's clear there's a triumvirate. Wishful think for you, apostate.

I suggest you read the Bible again. (Or, more appropriately, have it read to you.)

Well,that's convenient. But that makes you a fraud within a fraud then, apostate.

Nah, ****head.

[_Calculus Crusader]

Ok. So in West Coast's world, the Mormons, da Joos, and most of Christianity are "demonstrable frauds" unlike his airtight religion, whatever it is he's made up in his head. Phew. And I thought discussing Mormonism was akin to nailing pudding to a wall...

No, blockhead. Fraud implies intentional deceit, which certainly characterizes Holy Joe's religion. By way of contrast, while I think Rabbinic Judaism and Trinitarian Christianity are false, I do not believe they are frauds.