Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

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_William Schryver
_Emeritus
Posts: 1671
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _William Schryver »

Brent Metcalfe wrote:Hi Will,

You aver:


William Schryver wrote:
My conclusion is not based on anything Gee has said.

...

It is, rather, based on "documentary evidence." I have identified several pieces of historical evidence that suggest that at least all of the third chapter was produced in Kirtland, almost certainly with Warren Parrish as scribe.



Since you have "several pieces of historical evidence that suggest that at least all of the third chapter was produced in Kirtland, almost certainly with Warren Parrish as scribe," can you provide just three such pieces of historical evidence?

My best,

</brent>

http://mormonscripturestudies.com
(© 2009 Brent Lee Metcalfe. All rights reserved.)
——————————
The thesis of inspiration may not be invoked to guarantee historicity, for a divinely inspired story is not necessarily history.
—Raymond E. Brown

I promise to do it no later than when you refute my arguments on the interlinear insertion at Abr. 1:12 in KEPA #2, and the long dittograph on page 4 of the same document.

Or you actually publish your long awaited tome on the textual origins of the Book of Abraham.

Which ever comes first. :wink:

((c) William Schryver, 2009, All Rights Reserved.)
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_Brent Metcalfe
_Emeritus
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:37 am

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _Brent Metcalfe »

Hi Will,

Unless you can provide substantive evidence for your claims, I can only conclude you have no such evidence.

Best wishes,

</brent>

http://mormonscripturestudies.com
(© 2009 Brent Lee Metcalfe. All rights reserved.)
——————————
The thesis of inspiration may not be invoked to guarantee historicity, for a divinely inspired story is not necessarily history.
—Raymond E. Brown
_Doctor Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

What's worse, Brent, is that even Will's "counter" is lame. It's obvious that he's trying to "stick it" to you in the way that he feels you have "stuck it" to TBMs all these years. So: not only does he not have any real evidence, he also cannot come up with an original counter. He must be literally seething with frustration and anger.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_William Schryver
_Emeritus
Posts: 1671
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _William Schryver »

Brent Metcalfe wrote:Hi Will,

Unless you can provide substantive evidence for your claims, I can only conclude you have no such evidence.

Best wishes,

</brent>

http://mormonscripturestudies.com
(© 2009 Brent Lee Metcalfe. All rights reserved.)
——————————
The thesis of inspiration may not be invoked to guarantee historicity, for a divinely inspired story is not necessarily history.
—Raymond E. Brown

I guess we'll see, won't we? Unless, of course, you continue to lurk in the background, seemingly so risk averse that you have become all but paralyzed.
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_William Schryver
_Emeritus
Posts: 1671
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _William Schryver »

Doctor Scratch wrote:What's worse, Brent, is that even Will's "counter" is lame. It's obvious that he's trying to "stick it" to you in the way that he feels you have "stuck it" to TBMs all these years. So: not only does he not have any real evidence, he also cannot come up with an original counter. He must be literally seething with frustration and anger.

Hey Scrotch,

Pull up your fly. Your idiot is showing again.
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _Kevin Graham »

by the way, if I am so intellectually dishonest, etc., etc., then why is that my findings vis-a-vis the KEP keep getting confirmed by the experts? Are they all intellectually dishonest, too?


Probably. You are relying strictly on a handful of Mormons, right? And we are supposed to be impressed that they have favored the most apologetically appealing conclusion that some idiot came up with? This proves how bankrupt their position really is if your pet dittograph argument is all they have to fall back on. They are those who are perfectly aware of the ramifications for the Church as well as their own faith, if the evidence proves Joseph Smith could not translate ancient documents. Which brings me to another point. We already know Joseph Smith could not translate Egyptian symbols. This is an established fact that you will never be able to change.

What about the forensics lab? Are you going to call their results intellectually dishonest?


Oh you mean Hauglid finally decided to take my advice and get forensics involved? Don't tell me, Skousen and a few others with bullet-proof testimonies, those are the "experts" who have been chosen to "verify" your findings?

Or are you just going to continue your three-year-long slide into utter irrelevance when it comes to the Book of Abraham controversy?


Little has changed since I was banned from MAD a few years ago. Virtually nothing has been published on the papyri issue. But I did spend quite a bit of time dissecting and decimating your idiotic arguments left and right, which you never had the balls to come forth and defend, probably because they appeared on forums that didn't give you lecturing authority as a "pundit."

Kevin, you have fallen so far behind in the discussion that it's sad...Yes, my observations concerning the interlinear insertion at Abr. 1:12 and the dittograph on page 4 of the same document have been confirmed by multiple "experts" in textual criticism and forensic document analysis. Skousen is the only I will name at present, but all will be named.


Again you prove how much of an arrogant idiot you really are if you think any field of expertise can "verify" your claim that an entire page was "dittographed" by accident. Nothing short of a time machine, by which someone can travel back and watch what the scribe was doing, can "verify" any of this. Abraham 1:12? You're still babbling about that and you think you have advanced the discussion? What "discussion"? I've read your sporadic posts over the past couple of years at MAD, but my favorite parts were when you managed to lure Brent into the thread and he'd then illustrate just how much of a moron you really are. Will, you are the best thing that has happened to critics of the Book of Abraham.

I decided to wait until someone publishes something on the matter before getting back into it, and all this time you have been begging for undeserved attention on the forums, demanding that we recognize your "relevance" by reminding us constantly that there are "experts" working hard to verify something that you came up with. This is all ab out Will trying to stroke his ego. But no amount of ego stroking with change the fact that yo have been proved to be both dishonest and idiotic. If you really wanted to help bring credibility back to Book of Abraham apologetics, you'd bow out immediately.

And on at least these two significant points (which I have been arguing for almost three years now) my conclusions are going to be vindicated and the critics' arguments to the contrary will be proven false. And the bigger picture: the theory of KEPA #2 and #3 being simultaneous transcripts of an oral dictation will be shown to be entirely untenable.


Anyone dumb enough to believe this needs serious therapy. On several occasions I illustrated at least a half dozen compelling pieces of evidence supporting the simultaneous dictation scenario, and you have never dealt with any of them. Ever. But hey, you're "relevant," eh?

You tried to pump everyone up about Hauglid's FAIR presentation but he never dealt with them either. Instead, he flat out lied to his audience by pretending he had never heard of any evidences in favor of it. This is how you guys operate. This is how you keep fence straddlers on the fence. By pretending to be oblivious to any real evidence that contradicts your apologetic theories. You set out to make a mountain out of a piece of flimsy evidence and then pretend that if you get a handful of Mormon "experts" to rally to your side, then that means you've somehow addressed the mountain of evidence that contradicts your theory. From your bogus time line of the translation to the names of the people involved, you've made virtually every possible claim and error there is to make on the subject. I've got every post you've ever made on the subject saved in a file that I peruse whenever I feel the need to laugh.
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_Doctor Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

William Schryver wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:What's worse, Brent, is that even Will's "counter" is lame. It's obvious that he's trying to "stick it" to you in the way that he feels you have "stuck it" to TBMs all these years. So: not only does he not have any real evidence, he also cannot come up with an original counter. He must be literally seething with frustration and anger.

Hey Scrotch,

Pull up your fly. Your idiot is showing again.


Will---

If your evidence is as good as you claim, why not put it up? What are you afraid of?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Brent Metcalfe
_Emeritus
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:37 am

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _Brent Metcalfe »

Hi Will,


William Schryver wrote:
I guess we'll see, won't we? Unless, of course, you continue to lurk in the background, seemingly so risk averse that you have become all but paralyzed.



Really?

You made me smile—okay, I laughed... out loud.

If nothing else, Will, you provide all the entertainment and intrigue of an adept snake oil salesman.

All the best,

</brent>

http://mormonscripturestudies.com
(© 2009 Brent Lee Metcalfe. All rights reserved.)
——————————
The thesis of inspiration may not be invoked to guarantee historicity, for a divinely inspired story is not necessarily history.
—Raymond E. Brown
_William Schryver
_Emeritus
Posts: 1671
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _William Schryver »

Scrotch:
Will---

If your evidence is as good as you claim, why not put it up? What are you afraid of?

Scrotch, old buddy, I already have. You just haven't been paying attention. Again.

But, fret not, I'm going to prepare a simplified summary for people with short attention spans.

In the meantime, why don't you ask Metcalfe what he thinks of Royal Skousen's qualifications when it comes to textual criticism? I hear Brent's a big fan of his.
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_William Schryver
_Emeritus
Posts: 1671
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:58 pm

Re: Book of Abraham and the Latest Apologetics

Post by _William Schryver »

Brent Metcalfe wrote:Hi Will,


William Schryver wrote:
I guess we'll see, won't we? Unless, of course, you continue to lurk in the background, seemingly so risk averse that you have become all but paralyzed.



Really?

You made me smile—okay, I laughed... out loud.

If nothing else, Will, you provide all the entertainment and intrigue of an adept snake oil salesman.

All the best,

</brent>

http://mormonscripturestudies.com
(© 2009 Brent Lee Metcalfe. All rights reserved.)
——————————
The thesis of inspiration may not be invoked to guarantee historicity, for a divinely inspired story is not necessarily history.
—Raymond E. Brown

If nothing else, I aim to please.

Well, not everyone.

And certainly not all the time.

But when it matters most ...

Speaking of which, I don't recall that you ever rebutted Royal Skousen's confirmation of my analysis of the large dittograph on page #4 of KEPA #2. Is that in your plans? Or are you just going to remain all dressed up with nowhere to go?
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
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