Ray A wrote:Keep defending this perfidy to your heart's content, but you will never convince me of it. The above verses are so clear that even an imbecile can understand them.
Unfortunately for Whyme, he is not even an imbecile.
Why me, you have no knowledge. And I think you're as smart and informed as you'll ever be.
In fact, I just really did ask her. She says, "I am not very enthusiastic about the prospects of plural marriage, but if it came to that, I'm sure your love for me wouldn't be diminished by your need to love and provide for someone else."
She goes on: "The thing these people seem to forget is that plural marriage isn't just about having different women in different bedrooms. It's also about all the mundane and taxing details of having multiple families, and the responsibility that would come with that."
You are confusing duty with love here,Will. Like she wants to share "the best" with someone else. She didn't laugh at your sex joke, did she.
Like any woman I've ever known, Your wife would prefer to have nothing to do with it. She only expresses hope (a knowledge?) that you have the capacity to service the needs of more than one of her. I dare you to encourage her to read Mormon Enigma.
And yes, plural marriage isn't just about the sex, it's about an unnatural yoke placed upon the tender hearts of daughters and mothers.
Be a man. Put her soul at peace and Let her know she's the only one for you.
Why me, I don't think you are entirely correct over your opinion of Sidney. According to his grandson, it was a 'family secret' that he helped to 'get up' the Book of Mormon.
EDITOR TRIBUNE: -- In the intervals of my literary labors here I have many talks with men who were in Utah at a very early day, and occasionally with original Mormons or their sons.... [M]y chance talks with one of these are so agreeable that I report him briefly for you. Mr. Walter Sidney Rigdon is a citizen of Carrolton, Cattaraugus County, N. Y., and a grandson of Sidney Rigdon, the partner of Joe Smith. He talked with old Sidney hundreds of times about the "scheme of the Golden Bible," and his father still has many of the old Sidney's documents. "Grandfather was a religious crank," says Mr. Rigdon, "till he lost money by it. He started in as a Baptist preacher, and had a very fine congregation for those days, in Pittsburgh. There was no reason at all for his leaving, except that he got 'cracked.' At that time he had no ideas of making money. Indeed, while he was with the Mormons, his chances to make money were good enough for most men; but he came out of it about as poor as he went in."
[Mr.] Beadle, the reporter: -- "But how did he change first?"
"Well, he tried to understand the prophecies, and the man who does that is sure to go crazy. He studied the prophets and baptism, and of course he got 'rattled.' Daniel and Ezekiel and Revelations will 'rattle' any man who gives in his whole mind to 'em -- at any rate they did him, and he joined Alexander Campbell. Campbell then believed that the end of the world was nigh -- his Millennial Harbinger shows that they 'rattled' all who listened to him in Ohio and other places; then grandfather got disgusted and decided on a new deal. He 'found' Joe Smith and they had a great many talks together before they brought out the plates. None of us ever doubted that they got the whole thing up; but father always maintained that grandfather helped get up the original Spaulding book. At any rate he got a copy very early and schemed on some way to make it useful. Although the family knew these facts, they refused to talk on the subject while grandfather lived. In fact, he and they took on [a] huge disgust at the whole subject...."
I only report that part of Mr. Rigdon's talk which shows the history of the "Golden Bible," as accepted in the family. Of course, if Sidney Rigdon had wanted the world to believe the Smith story of the plates, he would have told them so. But, though the family do not care to ventilate it, he evidently taught them to treat the whole thing as a fraud. J. H. Beadle. -- New York, April 7, 1888. "The Golden Bible" (Salt Lake Tribune, 1888 -- full text on web) See: http://www.lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/UT/tr ... htm#041588
From:
Sidney Rigdon: Creating the Book of Mormon Originally posted: 8 Oct 2005 Revised and updated: 15 Mar 2009
By Craig Criddle
Taken on its own, it's mildly interesting, but the view is confirmed elsewhere independently outside of Rigdon's immediate family.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
Kevin Graham wrote:The funniest thing about this is that if a critic had got something like this wrong, he would be trumpeting it as an example of outright ignorance at best, or blatant dishonesty at worst.
What does it say when their "10 out of 10" guy can't come across as even mildly informed on any aspect of Mormonism?
.
No one's perfect????
What do you mean?
Not only did I not make a mistake, I eventually produced the reference.
Sidney Rigdon was accused, by multiple people, of introducing and practicing a form of polygamy in Pennsylvania in 1846. Are the charges true? Hard to say. Upon examination, they appear to me to have as much, if not more, credibility as the allegations that Joseph Smith had conjugal relations with the wives of other men to whom he was married for "eternity," while leaving them married to the existing husband for "time."
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
Rigdon was a very spiritual/religious person. Its entirely possible that if he helped write the Book of Mormon, he did it feeling he was inspired to do so. Therefore, there wouldn't be any fraud to expose per se.
“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.”
why me wrote:Bull Dinkie! Joseph Smith was no supporter of polygamy and in fact, it caused him some doubts. He did not go into it with tongue out slurping saliva or anthing else a tongue may slurp. The sword was drawn as a threat...obey the lord your god or else.
Indeed, Joseph showed no interest in polygamy at all... until he took Fanny to bed.
Never forget Fanny, why me. She is the reason for the revelation, and anyone who knows the history knows that.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Miss Taken wrote:Why me, I don't think you are entirely correct over your opinion of Sidney. According to his grandson, it was a 'family secret' that he helped to 'get up' the Book of Mormon.
EDITOR TRIBUNE: -- In the intervals of my literary labors here I have many talks with men who were in Utah at a very early day, and occasionally with original Mormons or their sons.... [M]y chance talks with one of these are so agreeable that I report him briefly for you. Mr. Walter Sidney Rigdon is a citizen of Carrolton, Cattaraugus County, N. Y., and a grandson of Sidney Rigdon, the partner of Joe Smith. He talked with old Sidney hundreds of times about the "scheme of the Golden Bible," and his father still has many of the old Sidney's documents. "Grandfather was a religious crank," says Mr. Rigdon, "till he lost money by it. He started in as a Baptist preacher, and had a very fine congregation for those days, in Pittsburgh. There was no reason at all for his leaving, except that he got 'cracked.' At that time he had no ideas of making money. Indeed, while he was with the Mormons, his chances to make money were good enough for most men; but he came out of it about as poor as he went in."
[Mr.] Beadle, the reporter: -- "But how did he change first?"
"Well, he tried to understand the prophecies, and the man who does that is sure to go crazy. He studied the prophets and baptism, and of course he got 'rattled.' Daniel and Ezekiel and Revelations will 'rattle' any man who gives in his whole mind to 'em -- at any rate they did him, and he joined Alexander Campbell. Campbell then believed that the end of the world was nigh -- his Millennial Harbinger shows that they 'rattled' all who listened to him in Ohio and other places; then grandfather got disgusted and decided on a new deal. He 'found' Joe Smith and they had a great many talks together before they brought out the plates. None of us ever doubted that they got the whole thing up; but father always maintained that grandfather helped get up the original Spaulding book. At any rate he got a copy very early and schemed on some way to make it useful. Although the family knew these facts, they refused to talk on the subject while grandfather lived. In fact, he and they took on [a] huge disgust at the whole subject...."
I only report that part of Mr. Rigdon's talk which shows the history of the "Golden Bible," as accepted in the family. Of course, if Sidney Rigdon had wanted the world to believe the Smith story of the plates, he would have told them so. But, though the family do not care to ventilate it, he evidently taught them to treat the whole thing as a fraud. J. H. Beadle. -- New York, April 7, 1888. "The Golden Bible" (Salt Lake Tribune, 1888 -- full text on web) See: http://www.lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/UT/tr ... htm#041588
From:
Sidney Rigdon: Creating the Book of Mormon Originally posted: 8 Oct 2005 Revised and updated: 15 Mar 2009
By Craig Criddle
Taken on its own, it's mildly interesting, but the view is confirmed elsewhere independently outside of Rigdon's immediate family.
Yep, that's a really credible piece of evidence you've produced right there.
It certainly has convinced me again that there is no avenue of historical research, outside of Mormon studies, more likely to produce such a mountain of virtually worthless "testimony." As a historian who has ventured into a handful of different topic areas, I can say that there is nothing that compares to Mormon History when it comes to this kind of crap. In fact, the following phrase must be -- I would imagine by regulation -- found in every one of these kinds of accounts:
None of us ever doubted that ...
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
karl61 wrote:plural marriage would not work in western civivlization.
Plural marraige will never work anywhere that women are valued as equals to men. Obviously the LDS church has much to learn about that sort of equality.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
why me wrote:But really in the past it meant nothing for most people.
Your ignorance of LDS history is appalling. "Most" people not only didn't know about it, the leaders who were all in on it went to great lengths to keep it under wraps, including destroying the printing press.
All converts heard of polyamy in Utah and most heard about Joseph Smith's polygamous marriages. No problem at all.
That is pure nonsense. Very very few people knew about Joseph's extramartial activities. He went to great lengths to ensure privacy for his adultery.
The revelation was revealed in Utah in 1852, 5 years after the Saints entered the Salt Lake valley, and thousands of miles from anyone who would or could support members who wanted to opt out. It was never revealed prior to that time to the general membership.
The only way to escape polygamy after 1852 was to be dead, broke, or ugly.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
why me wrote: He as not a horndog but just a guy who was found in a strange situation and he coped with it as best as he could.
He was a guy who slept with his teenage ward/maid and invented a revelation to cover his bare butt.
Don't try to make it something it's not, whyme. Remember Fanny.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
