Rational justification for Polygamy?

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_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

liz3564 wrote:Why would my heart be so at peace with the concept of a monogamous relationship with my husband throughout eternity when we attend the temple together, perform sealings together, and look at each other in the forever mirrors, if it is wrong? Am I not feeling the spirit in the Lord's temple?

Will my husband be stunted from obtaining his "full potential" because he refuses to take another wife? Why?

I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. The world to come will be more glorious and wonderful for the faithful than they can possibly comprehend, and nothing will be forced upon them. But they will also, surely, find their perspectives dramatically altered. For now we see through a glass, darkly.
_harmony
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Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _harmony »

Paul Osborne wrote:No, it shouldn't go both ways. Men and women are different and receive fulfillment in different ways both in mortality and in immortality. A women is totally fulfilled in one man in the eternities as she fills the measure of her creation. A man is fulfilled in many women as he fills the measure of his creation. The differences in the sexes is very distinct.


Your concept of God makes him into a respector of persons... someone who plays favorites.

I don't see him that way.

And I've noticed that among the men here, there is a distinct self-satisfied-ness about the prospect of eternal life as they envision it. I wonder what their response would be, were their penises missing, replaced with ovaries and a uterus. Wouldn't that be hilarious? :lol:
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

harmony wrote:And I've noticed that among the men here, there is a distinct self-satisfied-ness about the prospect of eternal life as they envision it. I wonder what their response would be, were their penises missing, replaced with ovaries and a uterus. Wouldn't that be hilarious? :lol:

If you're talking about me, please cite a passage in which I expressed such complacency.

It's true that I believe what God says, which is that the world to come will bestow blessings upon those who believe, both male and female, greater than anything that eyes have seen or ears heard or minds conceived, greater than anything that has ever entered into any mortal human heart. If you can find anything in what I've said that smugly privileges men over women, I hope you'll point it out.
_Paul Osborne

Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _Paul Osborne »

Why would my heart be so at peace with the concept of a monogamous relationship with my husband throughout eternity when we attend the temple together, perform sealings together, and look at each other in the forever mirrors, if it is wrong? Am I not feeling the spirit in the Lord's temple?

Will my husband be stunted from obtaining his "full potential" because he refuses to take another wife? Why?


Liz,

There is nothing wrong with the way you feel about just wanting your eternal marriage to consist of just you and your husband. This is a normal earthy feeling. God is delighted to bless you with his Spirit as you contemplate the joys of eteranal marraige even if it doesn't include the doctrine of increase for the man. Line upon line and precept upon precept. God blesses us as fast as we are able to bear truth and understand it.

I don't condemn you at all. All I ask is that you keep an open mind. In the hereafter, your eternal parents will lay their hands upon your head and ordain you a Goddess. Then, you will be lifted up with them as ONE. That is when all things make sense!

Love ya too.

Paul O
_harmony
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Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _harmony »

Paul Osborne wrote: All I ask is that you keep an open mind.


What about you keeping an open mind, Paul? Are you willing to be castrated, eunuched, lose those precious balls? Are you willing to realize that you may not have any wives at all, if early LDS men were right?

In the hereafter, your eternal parents will lay their hands upon your head and ordain you a Goddess.


I don't want to be a Goddess, if being a Goddess means I have to be one in a billion of a God's wives.

The answer is not only "no", but "hell, no!"
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

I hadn't really understood it before tonight, harmony, but I'm beginning to see that you genuinely dislike men.

If true, that explains a lot of disparate things that have puzzled me about your posts.

If it's true, I'm genuinely sorry. I myself would hate to live in a world in which I disliked and mistrusted half of its population a priori. That would be perfectly awful.

As it is, I like people. Everywhere. Men and women. Different religions. Almost all of them. I really do.



.
_Paul Osborne

Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _Paul Osborne »

Your concept of God makes him into a respector of persons... someone who plays favorites.

I don't see him that way.

And I've noticed that among the men here, there is a distinct self-satisfied-ness about the prospect of eternal life as they envision it. I wonder what their response would be, were their penises missing, replaced with ovaries and a uterus. Wouldn't that be hilarious?


Harmony,

God loves all of his wives equally. He love all of his children just the same. However, when it comes to his children some of them please him more than others. But his wives are perfected in everyway and he loves them all as one and appreciates them the same.

Yes, I have my own little versions of eternal life as I understand it. I grant you the same priviledge. Let every man believe as will, women too -- I musn't forget women have rights too. Heehehehehe

Now, don't worry, I won't ever loose my penis. And, I'm not ever going to show it to you, so don't ask.

:wink:

Paul O
_Yoda

Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _Yoda »

Harmony wrote:And I've noticed that among the men here, there is a distinct self-satisfied-ness about the prospect of eternal life as they envision it. I wonder what their response would be, were their penises missing, replaced with ovaries and a uterus. Wouldn't that be hilarious? :lol:



You know what, Harm? In all seriousness, I have had ONE conversation with a faithful male believer, who actually admitted to me that if the plural marriage situation were reversed, could he, in all honesty, totally accept it, and live it without any problem, that he would, indeed, have problems. That person was Dadof7, on the FAIR/MAD board.

He told me that if the situation was reversed, considering the love he had for his wife, it would be the hardest thing he would ever have to accept. He also said that when his wife became sick, and almost died, she told him that she wanted him to marry again. He promised he would, simply because she asked him to, but the thought of replacing her, even in a temporal sense, was beyond fathomable. Thank heavens...his wife did not die. He has referred to the situation as his own "Abrahamic test".

When he told me his story, I gained so much respect for him as a man. This was a man who truly loved his wife....who truly understood the relationship that exists between two committed people....and who is not afraid to admit that.

For the record, from what I have observed based on conversations I have had with both Gaz and Dan, I would put them in that same category, even though I still have differences in my understanding of all of this.

Thanks, guys, for a valuable discussion for me.
_harmony
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Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _harmony »

Daniel Peterson wrote:But that doesn't mean that I have to agree with your resolution, which I think is mistaken and unfortunate.


I don't expect anyone to agree with my resolution; the inspiration was for me alone. So it matters not at all to me that you think I am mistaken. You know what inspiration you have been given; I know what inspiration I have been given.

harmony wrote:I found a way to accommodate both: I vowed that I would never again follow a man, but I would find a way to maintain my membership in good standing. I would again never trust a man to give it to me straight, to not patronize me, to behave honorably.

I find that unutterably sad.


I find it utterly freeing.

harmony wrote:I am well aware that many here from both sides think I am a fool, and that has to be all right, because no one here has any part of my relationship with God. And I don't share that. Dan and Crock and the others can ridicule me, patronize me, call for my head on a platter...

I've never mocked your pain, and I've never called for your head on a platter.


I doubt you knew about my pain until tonight, and you've admitted what your course would be, were you my bishop.

I simply think that you're wrong, and I object to your tendency to make enormously broad statements on the basis of little or no historical knowledge, etc.


I don't necessarily think you're wrong; I don't have the kind of chutzpah; I allow everyone their own inspiration. And you really have no idea what I base my statements on, you don't know what I've read, you don't know what I've seen, you don't know who I've consulted.

harmony wrote:I read the things those men say about me and to me, that I'm stupid or delusional or foolish or misled or just downright wrong... and that's all right.

I don't believe that you're stupid or delusional.


You aren't guilty of all of those, Dan.

I suspect that, if you and I could talk to one another, away from the audience here, you would find me more understanding than you imagine.


I wonder... would you find me understanding?

And it's even possible, if you wanted some further help with some of the issues that cause you pain, that I could offer some.


I appreciate the offer, but what could I offer you? Friendship is a two-way street. If I want a counselor, I have one. If I want a spiritual leader, I have a bishop, bless his heart. Without reciprocity, it's the ol' patting harmony on her po' lil head again.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Paul Osborne

Re: Rational justification for Polygamy?

Post by _Paul Osborne »

What about you keeping an open mind, Paul? Are you willing to be castrated, eunuched, lose those precious balls? Are you willing to realize that you may not have any wives at all, if early LDS men were right?


I am not willing to be castrated or become a eunuche even if God commanded it. I would disobey. Yes, I feel my balls are too precious to give up.

When it comes to wives, I trust that God will provide what is needful for me.

I don't want to be a Goddess, if being a Goddess means I have to be one in a billion of a God's wives.

The answer is not only "no", but "hell, no!"


I believe your eternal perspective will change in time.

Paul O
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