Elohim has a gender and genitalia according to Mormon doctrine, teachings, talking-as-men-not-prophets (or whatever the more slippery, weasel words of description are being used this week), right?
So why is it so difficult for Mormons to fess up that their prophets in the chain of their professed authority claimed elohim got down and dirty with Mary to conceive Jesus?
You sound like a 7 year old that just heard from his friend about sex, but persists in disbelief because he just cannot imagine daddy and mommy did that to get him as a baby. What's the BFD? Would it make elohim any less your god, or Jesus any less his son, if elohim and mary got it on?
There must be a lot of virgin women nowadays who get pregnant. Technically a lesbian who has never been with a man is a virgin and of course there have to be asexual women or just regular heterosexual women who opt for artificial insemination. In fact the strange thing about the case I linked to is that in theory a baby can be born to two virgins.
When the LDS Church said that Mary conceived Jesus the same way that normal kids are conceived the science of IVF and artificial insemination did not exist. The prophets who may have interpreted the conception as done in the standard sense cannot be faulted any more that if when John describes giant bugs and dragons in Revelations he was possibly shown modern weapons in a futuristic battle and was trying to convey the images to people in his day and from his understanding.
There must be a lot of virgin women nowadays who get pregnant. Technically a lesbian who has never been with a man is a virgin and of course there have to be asexual women or just regular heterosexual women who opt for artificial insemination. In fact the strange thing about the case I linked to is that in theory a baby can be born to two virgins.
When the LDS Church said that Mary conceived Jesus the same way that normal kids are conceived the science of IVF and artificial insemination did not exist. The prophets who may have interpreted the conception as done in the standard sense cannot be faulted any more that if when John describes giant bugs and dragons in Revelations he was possibly shown modern weapons in a futuristic battle and was trying to convey the images to people in his day and from his understanding.
Are you saying God didn't have sex with Mary to produce Jesus and that the Prophets who said He did were wrong?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Are you saying God didn't have sex with Mary to produce Jesus and that the Prophets who said He did were wrong?
Yes and no. Do I believe Monsanto corporation will someday design giant wasps that will attack vast armies of people before Jesus returns? No, although I suppose it could be possible. My belief is that a prophet can only convey information/inspiration within the context of his understanding. So in that way Noah interpreted the whole world was flooded but that is not necessarily the case.
Now if you were to shoot back in time and try to explain cloning or IVF to someone trained in science they would probably look at you like you were absolutely mad. So when Brigham Young said that Jesus had a father and mother just like you and me he was saying this because he knew that part was true, and the assumption would be that sex produced the offspring.
On a related note I know one guy who is a Sunni Muslim and another who is Shia. The Sunni believes that if a man donates sperm then he is as guilty of adultery as if he had engaged in sexual intercourse with the woman. The Shia guy disagrees as his religion is open to artificial insemination and IVF. So I guess it could also depend on what your definition of sex is after all.
Are you saying God didn't have sex with Mary to produce Jesus and that the Prophets who said He did were wrong?
Yes and no. Do I believe Monsanto corporation will someday design giant wasps that will attack vast armies of people before Jesus returns? No, although I suppose it could be possible. My belief is that a prophet can only convey information/inspiration within the context of his understanding. So in that way Noah interpreted the whole world was flooded but that is not necessarily the case.
Now if you were to shoot back in time and try to explain cloning or IVF to someone trained in science they would probably look at you like you were absolutely mad. So when Brigham Young said that Jesus had a father and mother just like you and me he was saying this because he knew that part was true, and the assumption would be that sex produced the offspring.
On a related note I know one guy who is a Sunni Muslim and another who is Shia. The Sunni believes that if a man donates sperm then he is as guilty of adultery as if he had engaged in sexual intercourse with the woman. The Shia guy disagrees as his religion is open to artificial insemination and IVF. So I guess it could also depend on what your definition of sex is after all.
Got it, except Prophets have stated that Jesus was conceived in 'the normal way'. If it was in a new and difficult to explain way, wouldn't they have said 'Jesus was conceived in a manner with which we are not familiar and find difficult to describe'?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Got it, except Prophets have stated that Jesus was conceived in 'the normal way'. If it was in a new and difficult to explain way, wouldn't they have said 'Jesus was conceived in a manner with which we are not familiar and find difficult to describe'?
Normal: Egg meets sperm.
Magical: Marry winds up pregnant in a "poof, it's there."
Fiannan wrote:So in that way Noah interpreted the whole world was flooded but that is not necessarily the case.
I guess Noah's has to go down as the one of the dumbest in history. Is he going to miss all those people and animals when he gets of that raft of his, and why would God command him to build it for some local flood which he had way to much time to avoid. Is he the dumb one or us for believing this story.
Now if you were to shoot back in time and try to explain cloning or IVF to someone trained in science they would probably look at you like you were absolutely mad. So when Brigham Young said that Jesus had a father and mother just like you and me he was saying this because he knew that part was true, and the assumption would be that sex produced the offspring.
Of course God had carnal sex with Mary. She was young and hot. I laugh at why this is even argued. Like it really matters, but I guess some still think sex is bad and God would never have any.