Shocked by Polygamy

[_Analytics]

Exactly. The ridiculousness of many apologists is well-illustrated by their insistence that nothing short of photographs would constitute evidence that Joseph Smith had sexual congress with his wives.

The ridiculousness is the arrogance that anti-Mormons have, that they know everything, and that no other possibility exists.

Your minds are more closed than any other I know.

JMS

It's not a matter of whether "no other possibility exists." It's a matter of understanding the sum-total of the evidence and what it implies is the most likely.

If you'd like to hang your testimony on the possibility that Joseph Smith didn't have sex with his wives, that is certainly your prerogative.

[_jskains]

The D&C forbids a man to take a non-virgin to wife or she shall be destroyed. So, uh, he didn't follow those rules...nor did Brigham. They broke God's rules regarding poly.

Joseph lied his farking pants off on the whole affair, too. If it was all so innocent why become a liar...a bearer of false witness?

Oh, and it was against the laws outlined and accepted by the saints that was currently in the D&C. D&C 132 did not become public until the mid-1850's. SO all that time they were breaking the laws of the church.

Except why did the Book of Commandments entry on marriage also have the fact it wasn't a revelation attached to it?

JMS

[_Buffalo]

Joseph's sexual misbehavior started early on. You can't separate the restoration from Joseph Smith's sexual predation and swindling operations. They start at the same time.

Beyond the reality you can't really prove these sexual events, other than from manipulated anti-LDS sources, you also CAN in fact separate them. You are forcing a narrative to push your agenda.

JMS

Actually, all the evidence for sexual congress originates from LDS sources. I told you you didn't know much about polygamy.

The adultery started shortly after the publication of the Book of Mormon. The swindling started long before its publication.

[_jskains]

Actually, all the evidence for sexual congress originates from LDS sources. I told you you didn't know much about polygamy.

The adultery started shortly after the publication of the Book of Mormon. The swindling started long before its publication.

You must not have a real argument if all you can do is act like a child.

You have been put on ignore.

JMS

[_Buffalo]

Buffalo and company like to read into it perverse ideas like infidelity and adultery. There is no evidence of that what-so-ever. And there certainly isn't any proof of Joseph Smith having sex with perviously married women. I do know that he did have sex with young women that were only married to him and that is what you'd expect in polygamy. Again, Buffalo and company like to state that it was with all the wives or takes statements from these polygamist wives that they had been with the prophet and apply it to the dynastic marriges which were more about salvation and not about sex.

The only married wife who made a statement about it was Sylvia to her daughter Josephine that she was Joseph Smith's daughter. I take that to mean in the eternities since she isn't his biological daughter. Buffalo and company state definitively that Sylvia had sex with Joseph Smith because of this statement which is a complete mischaracterization and clearly not biologically true.

Actually Tobin, every piece of evidence we have points in the same direction - Joseph screwed all these women. He put his penis in their respective orafices. Whether ejaculation was achieved every time, we know not. Which orifices and positions were involved, we know not. That's a mystery.

Your dissembling regarding Sylvia is shameful. There was no technology to determine paternity in Sylvia's day. The only reason she could have thought her daughter was Joseph Smith is because Joseph Smith inserted his erect penis into Sylvia's vagina and moved it in and out until he ejaculated into her. Naturally she thought that it was Joseph, not her legal husband, who was the father.

You have invented your "in the eternities" apologetic whole cloth out of thin air. Shameful!

[_just me]

The D&C forbids a man to take a non-virgin to wife or she shall be destroyed. So, uh, he didn't follow those rules...nor did Brigham. They broke God's rules regarding poly.

Joseph lied his farking pants off on the whole affair, too. If it was all so innocent why become a liar...a bearer of false witness?

Oh, and it was against the laws outlined and accepted by the saints that was currently in the D&C. D&C 132 did not become public until the mid-1850's. SO all that time they were breaking the laws of the church.

Except why did the Book of Commandments entry on marriage also have the fact it wasn't a revelation attached to it?

JMS

Because it wasn't. That doesn't matter. It was accepted as LAW by common consent by the saints. It was canonized alongside other scriptures that say to only have one wife and to not covet other men's wives.

[_Buffalo]

Actually, all the evidence for sexual congress originates from LDS sources. I told you you didn't know much about polygamy.

The adultery started shortly after the publication of the Book of Mormon. The swindling started long before its publication.

You must not have a real argument if all you can do is act like a child.

You have been put on ignore.

JMS

I'm sorry you feel that way. Your ignorance regarding Joseph Smith's sexual activities must be grating to your ego. Perhaps you're feeling a little bit of disgust contemplating what he did.

[_just me]

Why are you so adamant that Smith didn't have any sex with any previously married women? Brigham Young did. Why is it okay for Briggy but not for Joseph?

Because these women were still living with their husbands. Basically, the accusation is bigamy. Adultery isn't actually accurate since Joseph Smith was married to these women. But, essentially that is what is claimed because Joseph Smith married these women so he could piously commit adultery and cover it up. It's a false, unproven accusation and complete garbage.

Uh, Joseph was a bigamist. If he had lived he would have been charged with it. That was in the works at the time of his death.

I take that back. I think he was going to be charged with unlawful cohabitation.

[_jskains]

I'm sorry you feel that way. Your ignorance regarding Joseph Smith's sexual activities must be grating to your ego. Perhaps you're feeling a little bit of disgust contemplating what he did.

Your infatuation with Joseph's Sexual activity says a lot too. Especially since you have to fill in the blanks. Do you enjoy those images you fill your head with?

JMS

[_Buffalo]

I'm sorry you feel that way. Your ignorance regarding Joseph Smith's sexual activities must be grating to your ego. Perhaps you're feeling a little bit of disgust contemplating what he did.

Your infatuation with Joseph's Sexual activity says a lot too. Especially since you have to fill in the blanks. Do you enjoy those images you fill your head with?

JMS

You have a funny way of ignoring me.

Anyway, I'm simply stating the established historical fact. Where there is ambiguity - as to, for instance, Joseph's preferred sexual positions/orafices, I have plainly admitted to ambiguity.

I don't enjoy the images of Joseph cheating on his wife with these girls he manipulated into sleeping with him. It gives me an unpleasant feeling in the pit of my stomach, as I'm sure it does for you as well. But best to face unpleasant reality.