Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

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_Drifting
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _Drifting »

Tobin wrote:God is just going around left and right smiting the wicked with black skins. In fact, the moment the Nephites became wicked they too were hit with one. Give me a break.


Well, Spencer W Kimball seems to have agreed with the Nephite view when he said he could see Indian children grow lighter as they joined the Church and grow in righteousness.

But leaving the odd rumblings of a mere Prophet of God to one side for a moment.


If the Nephites got this wrong and God didn't curse the Lamanites with a black skin. How can you trust anything in the Book of Mormon written by Nephites?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Tobin
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _Tobin »

Drifting wrote:
Tobin wrote:God is just going around left and right smiting the wicked with black skins. In fact, the moment the Nephites became wicked they too were hit with one. Give me a break.
Well, Spencer W Kimball seems to have agreed with the Nephite view when he said he could see Indian children grow lighter as they joined the Church and grow in righteousness.
But leaving the odd rumblings of a mere Prophet of God to one side for a moment.
If the Nephites got this wrong and God didn't curse the Lamanites with a black skin. How can you trust anything in the Book of Mormon written by Nephites?

SWK was good at seeing lots of things. Like spotting a murderous forger standing next to him in the form of Mark Hoffman as he sold the Church a forgery (that SWK examined himself).
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Chap
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _Chap »

Chap wrote:
Tobin wrote:Or you can read the Book of Mormon with a little more comprehension than a six year old typically has.


Won't do. If you read the Book of Mormon as an early 19th C. text (which it almost certainly is), it is clear that it is intended to convey that black skin is what you get from being cursed because you are wicked.

I would think that point is clear to an intelligent six year old, as well as to an uncommitted sixty year old.


Tobin wrote:Obviously. God is just going around left and right smiting the wicked with black skins. In fact, the moment the Nephites became wicked they too were hit with one. Give me a break.


Please don't caricature a sacred scripture. For some reason best known to himself, the LDS deity only chose to denote Lamanite wickedness by a change of skin color. Do you have a problem with that?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Tobin
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _Tobin »

Chap wrote:
Tobin wrote:Obviously. God is just going around left and right smiting the wicked with black skins. In fact, the moment the Nephites became wicked they too were hit with one. Give me a break.


Please don't caricature a sacred scripture. For some reason best known to himself, the LDS deity only chose to denote Lamanite wickedness by a change of skin color. Do you have a problem with that?
I'm sure there are more colors out there. He could have made the Nephites green instead when they became wicked.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Drifting
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _Drifting »

Tobin wrote:
Drifting wrote:If the Nephites got this wrong and God didn't curse the Lamanites with a black skin. How can you trust anything in the Book of Mormon written by Nephites?

Evil speaking of the Lords annointed removed


You missed answering this bit...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Chap
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _Chap »

Chap wrote:
Tobin wrote:Obviously. God is just going around left and right smiting the wicked with black skins. In fact, the moment the Nephites became wicked they too were hit with one. Give me a break.


Please don't caricature a sacred scripture. For some reason best known to himself, the LDS deity only chose to denote Lamanite wickedness by a change of skin color. Do you have a problem with that?


Tobin wrote:I'm sure there are more colors out there. He could have made the Nephites green instead when they became wicked.


Tobin seems to be mocking the LDS deity. Shocking!

(Alternatively, he could be on the edge of concluding that the Book of Mormon is a ridiculous and ill-constructed fiction.)
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Tobin
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _Tobin »

Drifting wrote:If the Nephites got this wrong and God didn't curse the Lamanites with a black skin. How can you trust anything in the Book of Mormon written by Nephites?
Evil speaking of the Lords annointed removed
You missed answering this bit...
I thought it was quite clear. I'm not six years old. I can employ a bit more sophistication in understanding the text than what a child might employ - such as reasoning, knowledge, experience, and oh yes, inspiration from God from time to time.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_LDSToronto
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _LDSToronto »

Tobin wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:I see no evidence of change and reform in the LDS church. Nor have I seen an ability of the aforementioned.
H.
Now you are being disingenous. The ending of the practice on polygamy


Um, did they do that because it was the right thing to do, or did they do that because of other reasons?


...and the racist policy banning blacks from the priesthood are well-known changes for example.


Once again, did they do this because it was the right thing, or did they do it for other reasons? And, did they apologize for this racism? Or do they still stand behind the policy, and simply say "we just don't know why blacks were banned"?

Many of the teachings of BY have been completely disavowed and we are seeing the teaching of men becoming God as being denied (I don't know we teach that) as well.


BS. I could point to dozens of places where 'gods in embryo' are still taught. And seriously, who gives a rats vagina if that is still taught - it's quirky, but hardly offensive.

Overtime, the Church will dispose of many of its bad practices and become more Christian. You can clearly see the signs of that in many of their statements (or because members such as myself are pushing for these reforms).



You misunderstand. I don't give a crap if the church becomes more Christian, more Jewish, more Muslim, more Hindu, more Coptic, more Buddhist, or more Atheist. It needs to become less hateful (ie gays), less misogynist, and less controlling.

Go ahead, change that.

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_Tobin
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _Tobin »

Chap wrote:Tobin seems to be mocking the LDS deity. Shocking!

(Alternatively, he could be on the edge of concluding that the Book of Mormon is a ridiculous and ill-constructed fiction.)
No, I'm just mocking your inelegant attempts at representing the text.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_LDSToronto
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Re: Think racism isn't taught to Mormon kids? Think again.

Post by _LDSToronto »

Tobin wrote:
just me wrote:Did God change the Lamanites skin color or not?
The Nephites felt that way. But it may have just been a genetic mutation and they attributed it to God cursing the Lamanites with a dark skin as an outward sign of how evil they were. You can not just read things in the Bible or Book of Mormon and simply accept them at face value. I would hope we are more sophisticated (at least some of us are) than that nowdays.



Ah, I see what you mean when you talk about change, Tobin. You aren't trying to change the church, you are trying to re-interpret your religion so that you can feel comfortable in your own skin (no pun intended).

Those are two different things.

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
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