Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

[_Pahoran]

[Also: I recommend that any readers unfamiliar with the term "circle jerk" consult the Urban Dictionary entry on the matter.]

Good idea.

Actually Will referred to a slightly different term: Urban Dictionary entry

Of course, the "Urban dictionary" actually changes from day to day. At the time Will first used that expression the first listed definition was:

1. circlejerk

Sometimes used to describe an internet forum thread where forum members all give each other kudos (Or rep where a rep system is present) for some non-event that has occurred.

Group intellectual masturbation.

It's still there as the 5th definition.

Not very "refeened," I admit. About on a par with Beastie describing FARMS as "likely an incestuous community."

Regards.
Pahoran

[_Pahoran]

There's also this gem from William, posted just 3 days before his recent four-month hiatus from MDB (10/22/10):

A despicable lie.

edited by harmony. Blatant personal attack. You're an inch from being suspended.

What did harmony edit out of William's post? What could he have possibly said that was so offensive that it was instantly moderated here in the land of free speech for all?

William called her a "c***." Just in case anyone reading this lives a very sheltered life: "c***" is "an abusive term usually considered the most offensive word [in reference to women] and even more forceful than bitch." I realize the original word is no longer preserved in William's post due to harmony's moderation, but there are several members of our community who remember this exchange and can vouch for this.

In other words, you are relying upon gossip.

Because, after all, the evidence has been conveniently expunged. And Will denies having used that term, which was not referred to by anyone who replied to Will before Harmony edited the post.

Someone -- it might have been Beastie -- smugly pointed out in this connection that people's memories aren't always reliable. But here we are relying upon nothing but people's memories.

Besides, the "C" word doesn't match the description of a personal attack. It's vulgar and insulting, certainly; but it doesn't rise to the level of anything as concrete as a personal attack.

Someone else said that if we have to choose between Will's and Harmony's recollections of the event, they'll accept Harmony's. As an expression of group loyalty, I can understand that.

But as far as Harmony's veracity is concerned:

A while ago, on one of my brief visits here, I saw a post in which Shades was rather sumptuously congratulating Harmony for what he delicately called "the WAZing ruse," which he imagined had "embarrassed" some "apologists" somewhere.

The "WAZing" incident was simply when Harmony/Serenity set up a sockpuppet with the screen name "WAZing," and used it as sockpuppet accounts are supposed to be used. If I recall correctly, it took about four days for her to be spotted.

The next time I visited this forum, I noticed that Harmony was a moderator. Evidently her "successful" (for a few days) "ruse," i.e. deception, was what qualified her for that role.

She is also rather proud of the success by which she has deceived her Church leaders into giving her a Temple Recommend.

So does Harmony have credibility? I wouldn't believe her if she told me the sky was blue.

You can call that a "personal attack" if you like. But I'll take Will's word over hers.

On any day you care to name.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Nomad]

[Also: I recommend that any readers unfamiliar with the term "circle jerk" consult the Urban Dictionary entry on the matter.]

Good idea.

Actually Will referred to a slightly different term: Urban Dictionary entry

Of course, the "Urban dictionary" actually changes from day to day. At the time Will first used that expression the first listed definition was:

1. circlejerk

Sometimes used to describe an internet forum thread where forum members all give each other kudos (Or rep where a rep system is present) for some non-event that has occurred.

Group intellectual masturbation.

It's still there as the 5th definition.

Not very "refeened," I admit. About on a par with Beastie describing FARMS as "likely an incestuous community."

Regards.
Pahoran

More beastie:

If I wanted to use sexual terms "figuratively", I would talk about how the FARMs apologists like to give each other blow jobs in their self-congratulatory work.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... 39#p168339

On the "C" word thing, Pahoran should read further into the thread where Rollo Tomasi, the one having the discussion with Will in the thread in question, explicitly denies that Will used the "C" word. Liz later confirms that the original post was not edited until 6:30pm that night, meaning that it would have been available for everyone to see from 9:00am - 6:30pm. Rollo quoted what Will said at about 11:00am and commented on it. He said he is certain Will did NOT use the "C" word.

Eric noted the fact that the "C" word would have been edited by board software anyway if Will had used it ("C***").

I think it's pretty obvious that harmony made the whole thing up just to spice up MsJack's attack piece.

[_MsJack]

STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD AND READ THIS.

I just had to report most of the last 5 pages of material for removal to other threads.

Which part of this:

Do not "derail" threads or otherwise insert commentary that has nothing to do with a thread's opening post.

Is so hard to understand?

If you are commenting in this thread, you are commenting on something that was discussed in my OP or something related to what was discussed in my OP, or you need to start your own thread.

Whether or not William Schryver made these bizarre "calling and election made sure claims" has nothing to do with this thread. It's not a topic I have commented on. Ever.

This "Christine Jonsen" business has even less to do with this thread.

Stop commenting on these topics here and make your own threads for them or wait for the moderators to move these posts into other threads and then comment on them there.

That is all.

[_MsJack]

In other words, you are relying upon gossip.

In other words, you are mischaracterizing eye witness testimony of an event as "gossip."

Kind of like your mischaracterization of this "well-written," "well-argued" thread which drew the thanks of someone close to the MI, as a "poison pen thread."

Someone -- it might have been Beastie -- smugly pointed out in this connection that people's memories aren't always reliable. But here we are relying upon nothing but people's memories.

Actually, that was me, although I recall nothing "smug" about my post. And I did it in defense of William Schryver since others were accusing him of lying about not having called harmony the c-word. I pointed out that he may believe he is telling the truth, that his memory may have involuntarily deleted the event by now, so automatically characterizing him as a "liar" because his memory disagrees with the memory of several eyewitnesses is unfair.

Besides, the "C" word doesn't match the description of a personal attack. It's vulgar and insulting, certainly; but it doesn't rise to the level of anything as concrete as a personal attack.

It's widely recognized as one of the most harshly abusive terms that someone can direct at a woman. Of course it's a personal attack, and it's rather inane and ignorant of you to even try to argue otherwise.

Someone else said that if we have to choose between Will's and Harmony's recollections of the event, they'll accept Harmony's.

I've repeatedly stated on this thread that it was MrStakhanovite's testimony that I found to be most powerful, especially since he commented on William's post within minutes of seeing it. No offense to harmony, but I don't know her very well and I don't know her real-life identity. Neither of these things is true for my relationship with Stak.

If this had merely been "harmony v. William," as you now incorrectly try to characterize it, I'd have probably never mentioned it. I am personally more inclined to believe harmony over William, but one "he said" v. one "she said" is not all that convincing.

[_MsJack]

I think it's pretty obvious that harmony made the whole thing up just to spice up MsJack's attack piece.

Hello Not-Will,

Now that you've returned, will you be issuing an apology for falsely having accused me of lying anytime soon?

[_Nomad]

I think it's pretty obvious that harmony made the whole thing up just to spice up MsJack's attack piece.

Hello Not-Will,

Now that you've returned, will you be issuing an apology for falsely having accused me of lying anytime soon?

I guess it doesn't matter much to reveal it, so feel free to call me Damon.

You are a liar. In the minds of all fair minded people, this thread has proven that.

[_MsJack]

Not very "refeened," I admit. About on a par with Beastie describing FARMS as "likely an incestuous community."

I disagree. William has often accompanied his accusations of "circle jerking" with vivid sexual imagery or terms. For example:

By the way, I for one am quite confident that most of you losers here in the Trailer Park are shameless buggerers. Else why your proclivity for the orgiastic circle jerks in which you all enthusiastically participate?

viewtopic.php?p=158004#p158004

After all, you've never been averse to taking your place right in the middle of the circle, heartily pounding out an approving beat for each and every orgiastic excess. You belong here.

viewtopic.php?p=169530#p169530

And then of course there's the quote from which I told readers to consult what the Urban Dictionary says about "circle jerks":

Harmony is just bitter that the daily circle jerks in the Great and Spacious Trailer Park™ are the closest she has come to a bona fide sexual experience in over 40 years.

I simply cannot understand how her husband has resisted the urge to off himself for so long. Of all the men in human history who have felt compelled, no matter the cost, to “stick it out” with a bitch of a wife – Joseph Smith included – if anyone deserves the reward of 72 virgins in heaven, it’s that poor man.

viewtopic.php?p=229889#p229889

So he compares "circle jerks" to "bona fide sexual experience" and then goes on to talk about men who deserve 72 virgins in heaven for sticking it out with "bitches of wives".

Unless you have some examples of beastie engaging in similar sexual imagery in accompaniment with her "incest" metaphors, I would say the two are not the same at all. Not by a long shot.

[_Buffalo]

I guess it doesn't matter much to reveal it, so feel free to call me Damon.

You are a liar. In the minds of all fair minded people, this thread has proven that.

Is Damon your middle name, Will? Or is that just your W.O.W. handle?

[_Nomad]

And then of course there's the quote from which I told readers to consult what the Urban Dictionary says about "circle jerks":

Harmony is just bitter that the daily circle jerks in the Great and Spacious Trailer Park™ are the closest she has come to a bona fide sexual experience in over 40 years.

I simply cannot understand how her husband has resisted the urge to off himself for so long. Of all the men in human history who have felt compelled, no matter the cost, to “stick it out” with a bitch of a wife – Joseph Smith included – if anyone deserves the reward of 72 virgins in heaven, it’s that poor man.

viewtopic.php?p=229889#p229889

You mean this quote that is NOT from Will Schryver? This quote that he explicitly denied having made. This quote made by someone who registered as "WilliamSchryver", made one post that he/she made to sound like Will, then never posted again?

This is exactly why I say you are a liar.

So he compares "circle jerks" to "bona fide sexual experience" and then goes on to talk about men who deserve 72 virgins in heaven for sticking it out with "bitches of wives".

Unless you have some examples of beastie engaging in similar sexual imagery in accompaniment with her "incest" metaphors, I would say the two are not the same at all. Not by a long shot.

You mean like the one where she talked about FARMS men giving each other blow jobs?