Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

[_beastie]

Tell me, with a straight face, that it's really worse than the notorious "lie back and think of England" remark.

Regards,
Pahoran

The fact that I know you are serious in your question is quite disturbing.

As Ms. Jack has pointed out, and I have repeatedly stressed, I admitted the joke was made in anger and was in poor taste and apologized on the very same thread. In addition, this was ONE joke over my long span of posting history. Will, on the other hand, makes references far more vulgar than mine, your unwillingness to admit the obvious aside, has never apologized for them, and, in fact, delights in them. He thinks they're his best work.

Yet, as I pointed out here
viewtopic.php?p=456704#p456704

you said my joke was filthy, vile, and I was a woman without one shred of virtue for making it. Yet the most condemnation you could heap upon Will was that it was inappropriate trash-talk. Will repeatedly made far more vulgar references than I have, and has a history of sexualizing insults towards women in particular. Tell me, Pahoran, were the things Will said vile and filthy, and does he have one shred of virtue?

[_Yoda]

It's a disgraceful dog-pile that reflects far more badly upon you than it does upon its target...The fact is that the Will-accusers are unanimously his ideological opponents in this forum.

Pahoran, you ignored my response because you cannot refute the facts nor can you deal with them. You ignored it so you can claim ignorance while reiterating the same stupid mantra such as this. No Pahoran, you do not know the facts. The fact is there have been quite a few LDS apologists who have expressed concern with Will's behavior. I was contacted out of the blue by several of them from MAD. Two of them I never knew before and one of them had shared some email exchanges he had with William on the matter and it was clear Will couldn't care less about what other felt about his vulgar behavior. When I informed Will of this, he immediately jumped to the conclusion that David Bokovoy was among those who had been contemplating writing NAMI to express their concerns. Will sent emails to several LDS scholars such as Brian Hauglid and John Gee, and instead of aliging themselves to Will's side, they immediately informed David what Will was up to. Will then made a veiled threat to David, insinuating that his choice to contradict him publicly would result in his own academic downfall, or something of the sort. You see, Will has regularly boasted of his social affiliations with the folks at NAMI and BYU. I found out that he regularly visits the NAMI office to rub elbows with the powers that be, constantly pitching his KEP material for publication. From his lunch dates with Hosskison, to his late night movie nights with Royal Skousen, Will wants people to believe he is very close to the elite in LDS scholarship, and he has also insinuated that they laugh along with him and his literary wit.

So no Pahoran, you don't know the facts. The fact is any number of us here could have made an effort to disclose Will's antics to the NAMI, but we didn't. It was initially a project born from concerned apologists but ultimately it was a female Evangelical and BYU graduate who collected all the evidence together and made her concerns known in a very lucid manner.

In the end, Will gets embarrassed once again. Contrary to Will's predictions, Bokovoy's career moves on, while it is William who gets knocked off his ambitious path to academic respectability.

Kevin, this is a perfect, very truthful synopsis of the events.

Pahoran, I understand that you want to protect Will, but I think that you need to look at the overall picture. This is not merely a dog pile by anti-Mormons. There are plenty of us, who are LDS, who strongly disapproved of Will's behavior. If it was one isolated incident, the action taken would not have occurred.

In the end, it was folks who were LDS who made the ultimate decision. And, frankly, as a Church member and a Higher Education Faculty member myself, I believe that the decision they made was justified.

[_Pahoran]

Kevin, this is a perfect, very truthful synopsis of the events.

Excuse me while I go barf.

Pahoran, I understand that you want to protect Will, but I think that you need to look at the overall picture. This is not merely a dog pile by anti-Mormons. There are plenty of us, who are LDS, who strongly disapproved of Will's behavior. If it was one isolated incident, the action taken would not have occurred.

In the end, it was folks who were LDS who made the ultimate decision. And, frankly, as a Church member and a Higher Education Faculty member myself, I believe that the decision they made was justified.

It may be a little premature to say that there has been an "ultimate decision." Some people may come to realise that they have been had.

But I will concede that this is not merely a dog-pile by anti-Mormons. It is a dog-pile by anti-Mormons and a few of their "useful idiots."

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Yoda]

Kevin, this is a perfect, very truthful synopsis of the events.

Excuse me while I go barf.

Pahoran, I understand that you want to protect Will, but I think that you need to look at the overall picture. This is not merely a dog pile by anti-Mormons. There are plenty of us, who are LDS, who strongly disapproved of Will's behavior. If it was one isolated incident, the action taken would not have occurred.

In the end, it was folks who were LDS who made the ultimate decision. And, frankly, as a Church member and a Higher Education Faculty member myself, I believe that the decision they made was justified.

It may be a little premature to say that there has been an "ultimate decision." Some people may come to realise that they have been had.

But I will concede that this is not merely a dog-pile by anti-Mormons. It is a dog-pile by anti-Mormons and a few of their "useful idiots."

Regards,
Pahoran

So I suppose that you consider David Boykov and LOAP "useful idiots"?

[_RockSlider]

MDDB has a strong rule against cross-posting and board wars.
Consig has cross-posted between here and there more than once.

Everyone, both sides have cross posted for years. In my case, since the move from MAD to MDD that was my first time in referring to this board, why not a warning and a suspension?

In the case of consiglieri last night, he never referred to this board
It was titled something like "Can you confirm rumors", with the content simply stating that the rumor was that MI was not going to publish Williams KEP work.

And why the immediate deletion of the threads verses your standing locking of them?

The likes of consiglieri brought diversity and a continued catalyst of good discussions to MDD. But what else is new? Well it appears you have the MDD pretty much whittled down to the tribe and any poor struggling soul that decide to take a trip down your river.

[_beastie]

Everyone, both sides have cross posted for years. In my case, since the move from MAD to MDD that was my first time in referring to this board, why not a warning and a suspension?

In the case of consiglieri last night, he never referred to this board
It was titled something like "Can you confirm rumors", with the content simply stating that the rumor was that MI was not going to publish Williams KEP work.

And why the immediate deletion of the threads verses your standing locking of them?

The likes of consiglieri brought diversity and a continued catalyst of good discussions to MDD. But what else is new? Well it appears you have the MDD pretty much whittled down to the tribe and any poor struggling soul that decide to take a trip down your river.

I believe that MDD will not allow any discussion of this event EVER to take place. I think that it would be too divisive to believers, and they know that. On one side, you'll have the Pahorans who have their own history of problematic behavior (while different than Will's, of course) frothing at the mouth over this betrayal of Will. On the other side, you'll have the more temperate defenders of the faith, like David and LoaP, who may think this was a long time coming. The MDD mods don't want to deal with an "in-house" fracas.

[_RockSlider]

It may be a little premature to say that there has been an "ultimate decision." Some people may come to realise that they have been had.

Pahoran jumping on the hand grenade, and the prophecy of the phoenix rising from the ashes, where is the popcorn?

[_RockSlider]

I believe that MDD will not allow any discussion of this event EVER to take place. I think that it would be too divisive to believers, and they know that. On one side, you'll have the Pahorans who have their own history of problematic behavior (while different than Will's, of course) frothing at the mouth over this betrayal of Will. On the other side, you'll have the more temperate defenders of the faith, like David and LoaP, who may think this was a long time coming. The MDD mods don't want to deal with an "in-house" fracas.

Yes, this is pretty obvious.

Bottom line, who cares, MAD, even after all the initial automatic banning of many from here, along with a long history of banning the scary likes of KA, at least had some traffic. Something about the change to MDD marked a notable hit in their posting traffic, with the likes of DCP, William and Wade cycling back here to regular posting (with very little at the same time there).

The boards dying. Much like William hanging himself here, they are killing their own board.

Anyway, once again, fair warning, if you want to keep an account there, the message seems clear enough, the thread will be deleted and you will be banned.

[_consiglieri]

In the case of consiglieri last night, he never referred to this board
It was titled something like "Can you confirm rumors", with the content simply stating that the rumor was that MI was not going to publish Williams KEP work.

I didn't know I was banned until I read your post, Relief Society.

So that it may be known what caused my banning on the MDD Board, I posted a thread titled, "Putting a Rumor to Rest."

The entirety of the OP was as follows:

I have heard a rumor that the Maxwell Institute is pulling the plug on publishing William Schryver's Book of Abraham research.

Is there any truth to this?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I think somebody over there has thin skin.

I also wanted to mention that I was PM'd over there by a poster whose name I will not mention, but who was unfamiliar to me, with the following message:

As angry as parh was "rumored" to be, tread lightly

I do not know what "parh" is supposed to mean, and cannot communicate with this poster to find out whether it was a misspelling or an acronym or abbreviation or what.

At any rate, I knew the job was dangerous when I signed up for it.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Doctor Scratch]

I also wanted to mention that I was PM'd over there by a poster whose name I will not mention, but who was unfamiliar to me, with the following message:

As angry as parh was "rumored" to be, tread lightly

I do not know what "parh" is supposed to mean, and cannot communicate with this poster to find out whether it was a misspelling or an acronym or abbreviation or what.

At any rate, I knew the job was dangerous when I signed up for it.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I'll bet that "parh" was supposed to say "Pah"---as in "Pahoran." It's obvious that his blood pressure has been spiking dangerously the last few days, hence his insane, rage-fueled posting here. But I've also been told that Pahoran was appointed a moderator over at MDD, which may help to explain why some people have abandoned that board. If I recall correctly, LoaP mentioned in a post that he *used to be* a moderator, but isn't anymore. I wouldn't doubt that he stepped down after Pahoran was appointed.

in my opinion, Pahoran is every bit as much of a liability to the Mopologetic cause as Will was. He needs to be cast out if they're to have any hope of engaging in the sort of "bridge-building" that DCP has mentioned in the past.