Cognitive Dissonance -- It Sucks

[_Moniker]

Cognitive dissonance rocks. It’s when it leaves that sucks.

So true! But, then after it's sorted out it's marvelous -- truly.

It's tough as it leaves and sorting it out. For me it was whether I was a victim or not -- it was some of the most confusing and emotionally intense few months of my life. Then other something going on at the same time which made that difficult to sort out as others insinuated I was a victim from that as well. Very, very confusing and just really put me in to total basketcase mode.

Very zen today....

[_the road to hana]

So then the Holy Ghost could maybe be confirming "gospel truths" without necessarily confirming the truthfulness of the church itself?

The Holy Ghost could maybe be confirming general "truths" in the Book of Mormon without necessarily confirming the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon itself?

That is nice, hana. You are definitately not one of the fish in the barrel! :)

So, say, just for the sake of argument, that this oculd be true, and there a "truths" in the Book of Mormon even if it was a work of fiction. Then you are still obligated to live the truths from it since they were testified to by the Holy Ghost. Oops. Caught you there.

Well, sure. Even an Evangelical Christian will tell you there are truths in the Book of Mormon (else, the truths they believe are in the Bible that are in the Book of Mormon are not truths).

That doesn't mean the Book of Mormon is true.

Loving your neighbor and having close family relationships can be true; that doesn't necessarily mean the LDS Church is true.

A prospective convert could pray to know "the Gospel" is true, and get confirmation of the same, and have that not necessarily mean that the church is true. . .according to what you stated above.

So maybe you shouldn't confuse one for the other.

Again, though, you're the one saying what the Holy Ghost will and won't do. Maybe he doesn't agree. Maybe he doesn't like you misrepresenting him.

[_the road to hana]

I could be wrong, but my experience with the witness of the Holy Ghost, my study of the scriptures regarding gifts of the Spirit leads me to believe that what I said is correct.

This should be your own sigline, Charity. In fact, if no one else swipes it, I might borrow it for a while myself.

[_ludwigm]

Holy Ghost is a marvelous thing. Or it would be, if it were existing.

( I'm sorry, I have heard this yesterday: In the Vatican, the personal helicopter of the Pope is holycopter. )

[_why me]

I don't consider myself living in a bubble. But this word is used so much that I do think that it needs to be retired.

Clichés can certainly be abused, but clichés only get to be clichés if they capture a universal truth.

I think the phrase is a bit tired too, but can you think of a better way to describe the phenomenon of Mormon belief in the face of so much counterevidence? Words like denial, obstinacy, compartmentalization, and idiocy all come to mind, but I think cog dis captures it best, and apparently, so do many others.

It is much better just to say that 'I grew out of the LDS religion' since this is what happens. Some people just change their belief systems especially if a belief system has occupied a lot of their lives. Call it burn out or a disciple of 'move on'. People leave many organizations during a course of a life. Heck, Joel Osteen has many people sitting listening to him who were from many different faiths. Perhaps they also are suffering from cog dis.

[_why me]

Little factories...another hilarious term for........

Speak for yourself and not for the other guys on this forum! :=) Can you be sure that all factories are little?

[_why me]

Please tell me you're joking. I knew the term cognitive dissonance long before I met Bob McCue. As I said, it's an apt description of a phase in the process of coming to grips with the reality of Mormonism or any other belief system.

Maybe so, but the word reached its heyday a year or so ago when exmormon and postmormon sites were awash in the word. I think that the word was a real turn on for many of them. It certainly sounds like an impressive word, very academic. But...as you have mentioned it is not particular to Mormonism and should be used as such.

[_JAK]

And those of you who have decided to relieve your stress by leaving the Church have still not overcome the cogn dis problem. Many, many of you (maybe not all) still have a kernel of truth hiding in your souls, and you still know deep down that the Church is true. Which is why Elder Maxwell pointed out the problem you have. "You can leave the Church, but you can't leave it alone."

Charity, I suspect it’s the opposite. That is “stress” is relieved when one abandons the absurd and the irrational.

Your generalization is absurd “the Church is true.”

You have a major case of cognitive dissonance here.

You obliterate the evolution of religious doctrine over centuries. There is no “the Chruch” as your blind faith claims.

There are many, many religious organizations which are “churches” in the plural.

Take a drive tour of the south and the southeastern United States – “churches” plural. There are many denominations. And you entirely omit (in your characterization of “the Church”) the people of other religions such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

Speaking of your cognitive dissonance, you might read some history of the evolution/emergence of religious organizations.

JAK

[_JAK]

So then the Holy Ghost could maybe be confirming "gospel truths" without necessarily confirming the truthfulness of the church itself?

The Holy Ghost could maybe be confirming general "truths" in the Book of Mormon without necessarily confirming the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon itself?

That is nice, hana. You are definitately not one of the fish in the barrel! :)

So, say, just for the sake of argument, that this oculd be true, and there a "truths" in the Book of Mormon even if it was a work of fiction. Then you are still obligated to live the truths from it since they were testified to by the Holy Ghost. Oops. Caught you there.

Charity,

We have already established that the Book of Mormon was plagiarized from the King James Version (1611). The evidence for that plagiarism is overwhelming and compelling for all but the ostrich mentality.

Just what "truths" are you claiming? It's easy to put up generilized claims. It requires nothing but assertion. Such claims are unreliable. It’s your responsibility to provide the specifics for your claims. You provide none.

JAK

[_JAK]

Because, even in science, you can't prove a negative.

That's a lie.

The earth is NOT a square. <-This can be proved through the scientific method of observation, data retrieval, and documentation.

Negative just proved. Also, a negative is proved until proof is provided. For example, there are NO leprechauns. It's proved until it is disproved through the scientific method, data retrieval, and documentation.

In a previous post, I complimented you, antishock8. You were exactly correct in your analysis.

However, here you are not. The burden of proof lies with one making an affirmative claim.

Generally, science proves (or supplies compelling evidence) for an affirmative.

You’re correct that the earth is not square. However, the proof was not as you say a negative proof. On the contrary, it was an affirmative proof that the earth is spherical (or round).

It was not a negative that was proved. The conclusion that the earth is not square is not a proof of a negative. It’s a proof of an affirmative: the earth is spherical (or round).

As I’m sure we agree, charity makes voluminous claims for which she offers nothing in support beyond her claims or rather a regurgitation of Mormon dogma.

But, your claim that the “negative just proved” is incorrect.

Sorry to challenge you here because we are in most general agreement.

You just have science wrong here.

JAK