LDS Apologetics Operating Costs Are More Than $7,000,000

[_Angus McAwesome]

Except for the fact that DCP, as a faithful Latter Day Saint and committed Christian, has ethical and intellectual credibility on the matter. Scratch, on the other hand, as an inflammatory demagogue who has been caught time and again in lying to make his debating points and who's entire style of criticism is grounded in Keith Olbermannesque demagoguery and personal slander, has none.

Hey everyone, Drippy LaDouche pulled another ad hominem out of his Hat of Fail +1! No one saw that coming at all, amirite?

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Publicly-filed documents state otherwise, and which were signed under oath.

They're not inerrant. I simply wasn't ever paid $20K for serving as board chairman. Nor anything close to that. Period.

I know you think you're never wrong (hence, the absurd denials in the face of overwhelming evidence), but don't you think this is a bit much?

Why the documents read the way they do, I couldn't say. I haven't looked at them, and probably won't.

But yet you claim a publicly-filed document signed under oath and penalties of perjury must be wrong. Go figure ....

If you think we're guilty of fraud, report us to the IRS.

I'm not the one claiming the Form 990 is "inerrant," you are.

On the whole, I don't care about internet anonymity. But I do think it shameful and reprehensible to hide behind a pseudonym while publicly maligning a person by name.

How is reporting the raw data on a publicly-filed tax document signed under oath and penalties of perjury, "maligning" you? You're pulling out the 'martyr card' again.

No need to fret, my dear bishop

It's too bad you seem to regard the term bishop as an instrument of derision.

I don't in general, just in your case based on your behavior on this bb.

Whatever my inadequacies, I take my callling [sic] very seriously, and am trying to help a large number of young people to get and keep their lives in order -- not only as regards the church, but as regards relationships, marriage, employment, and finances.

Bully for you. Let's just hope you don't discover one of them posting things on the Internet that you feel compelled to snitch to their parents.

My being a bishop should not be a vehicle for cheap mockery or complacent put-down. It's irrelevant to the issues here.

Too bad you're the one who first mentioned it here.

Now I've got to go. I'm happy that I was able to provide some entertainment for you and [Mr.] Scratch. Sometimes, without me to stir things up, this place gets a bit slow and you two virtually disappear.

It's always nice to have you here, Dan. Please come back and visit.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Oh, forgot to mention -- congrats on making $8,000 as "Board Chair" for the final 6 months of 1999 (at which time BYU took over FARMS), according to FARMS's Form 990 for the period July 1, 1999 to December 31, 1999 (and signed under oath, by the way). I'm sure that one is wrong, too ....

It's wrong. I didn't.

So now we have at least two Form 990's filed by FARMS within just three years "wrong"? You really ought to look into this, Mr. Chairman of the Board. ;)

[_Daniel Peterson]

Ah. They haven't arrived quite yet.

I know you think you're never wrong

You're wrong about my thinking that I'm never wrong.

(hence, the absurd denials in the face of overwhelming evidence), but don't you think this is a bit much?

I would know if I had received $20K for a year or $8K for six months as a board chairman fee. I never did.

I don't know and I don't particularly care what the accountant submitted to the IRS ten years ago. If he gave those figures for my fee as board chairman, he was wrong.

you claim a publicly-filed document signed under oath and penalties of perjury must be wrong. Go figure ....

You go figure. You're much more interested in this than I am.

I'm not the one claiming the Form 990 is "inerrant," you are.

Huh? I'm doing this, in some mysterious Mopologetic fashion, by repeating that, if it says I made $20K for a year as a board chairman's fee, it's wrong?

How is reporting the raw data on a publicly-filed tax document signed under oath and penalties of perjury, "maligning" you? You're pulling out the 'martyr card' again.

You're accusing me of lying, are you not? Or, in any case, of grossly misrepresenting my income and its sources.

My being a bishop should not be a vehicle for cheap mockery or complacent put-down. It's irrelevant to the issues here.

Too bad you're the one who first mentioned it here.

I don't recall that I did.

Can you please supply the passage in which, no doubt expecting a reaction of hushed and reverent awe, I announced to the board here that I'd been ordained a bishop?

It's always nice to have you here, Dan. Please come back and visit.

The irresistible charm and down-home friendliness of the place makes it difficult to resist. And the sympathetic, ever-charitable devotion to issues rather than persons leaves me panting for more.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Incidentally, as I was heating up the grill I thought again of Scratch's persistent interest in persons rather than substance, his creepy network of "anonymous informants," and his "dossiers," and suddenly one of my favorite literary put-downs occurred to me. It's too good not to mention it:

T. S. Eliot once said of Henry James that James had "a mind so fine that it could not be penetrated by an idea."

It would be hard to beat that one. (Though I certainly don't mean to suggest any "fineness" of mind in this particular case.)

[_Mister Scratch]

Ah. They haven't arrived quite yet.

I know you think you're never wrong

You're wrong about my thinking that I'm never wrong.

(hence, the absurd denials in the face of overwhelming evidence), but don't you think this is a bit much?

I would know if I had received $20K for a year or $8K for six months as a board chairman fee. I never did.

I don't know and I don't particularly care what the accountant submitted to the IRS ten years ago. If he gave those figures for my fee as board chairman, he was wrong.

Prof. P.: I have noticed that you are being careful to continuously state the you did not receive these sums as "board chairman fee." So, does that mean that were paid these amounts for other duties?

Also (and I am trying to toss you a bone here; feel free to thank me later), is it possible that you never "received" the money because it was siphoned back into FARMS's coffers?

[_Daniel Peterson]

They're all boxing on the Wii. I'm bored, so I ducked out quickly.

Prof. P.: I have noticed that you are being careful to continuously state the you did not receive these sums as "board chairman fee." So, does that mean that were paid these amounts for other duties?

As I've explained several times above, that's my hypothesis to account for the sum.

Do you actually read what I write?

Also (and I am trying to toss you a bone here; feel free to thank me later), is it possible that you never "received" the money because it was siphoned back into FARMS's coffers?

I have no idea. But I can say definitely that I was never paid $20K for a year of serving as FARMS chairman, nor $8K for six months. Nor did I ever expect to be.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

I know you think you're never wrong

You're wrong about my thinking that I'm never wrong.

Thanks for proving my point.

(hence, the absurd denials in the face of overwhelming evidence), but don't you think this is a bit much?

I would know if I had received $20K for a year or $8K for six months as a board chairman fee. I never did.

Then I guess I confused you with a different "Daniel C. Peterson" on the FARMS Board in 1997-99. Silly me.

I don't know and I don't particularly care what the accountant submitted to the IRS ten years ago. If he gave those figures for my fee as board chairman, he was wrong.

But of course. You're always right.

you claim a publicly-filed document signed under oath and penalties of perjury must be wrong. Go figure ....

You go figure. You're much more interested in this than I am.

Not really. It's just interesting that it turns out you made a lot more from apologia than originally thought.

I'm not the one claiming the Form 990 is "inerrant," you are.

Huh? I'm doing this, in some mysterious Mopologetic fashion, by repeating that, if it says I made $20K for a year as a board chairman's fee, it's wrong?

The use of "inerrant" in relation to the Form 990 was by you, not me.

How is reporting the raw data on a publicly-filed tax document signed under oath and penalties of perjury, "maligning" you? You're pulling out the 'martyr card' again.

You're accusing me of lying, are you not? Or, in any case, of grossly misrepresenting my income and its sources.

Not lying, just mistaken ... and of the Form 990 in question being correct. And if there is any "gross misrepresentation" about your income, then blame the Form 990 and take it up with the FARMS representative who signed it under oath and penalties of perjury.

My being a bishop should not be a vehicle for cheap mockery or complacent put-down. It's irrelevant to the issues here.

Too bad you're the one who first mentioned it here.

I don't recall that I did.

I do. You mentioned it shortly after you were called.

Can you please supply the passage in which, no doubt expecting a reaction of hushed and reverent awe, I announced to the board here that I'd been ordained a bishop?

You mentioned it in passing as opposed to an "announcement" (as you often do when you want to brag without being obvious). Find the post yourself -- it was yours.

It's always nice to have you here, Dan. Please come back and visit.

The irresistible charm and down-home friendliness of the place makes it difficult to resist. And the sympathetic, ever-charitable devotion to issues rather than persons leaves me panting for more.

We aim to please.

[_solomarineris]

What is FARMS yearly operating budget?

It's none of your business.

You gotta love this guy! (and most of us genuinely do).

I mean, "cksalmon", know thy place! and not ask stupid questions like this.
You don't even know what is going on in your own city's finances, where do you live?
West Jordan, Provo, Sacramento? will they give you any information about their operations?
Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints has no responsability to furnish you any type of
information you request.
Squirm all you want.
They ain't givin you nuthin.

PS: However they are willing to take you back to the fold, provided you pay tithing.

[_Gadianton]

I almost had a heart attack when I looked over some of those numbers. I don't have much to add now, but Tom, I think your mother's contribution to the new FARMS building went to a fat "bonus" for one of the board members.