Islam in the United States, with Mormons

[_Daniel Peterson]

You're posting historically illiterate nonsense, CamNC4Me.

Read a good history of the Near East. Bernard Lewis is probably the greatest Islamicist in the English-speaking world -- something of a political conservative, too, and a supporter of Israel -- and I suggest something by him.

[_KimberlyAnn]

You're posting historically illiterate nonsense, CamNC4Me.

Read a good history of the Near East. Bernard Lewis is probably the greatest Islamicist in the English-speaking world -- something of a political conservative, too, and a supporter of Israel -- and I suggest something by him.

Last night in chat, [MODERATOR NOTE by Shades: Chat room goings-on deleted. Remember, folks, that that which goes on via PM or in the chat room needs to STAY in PM or in the chat room unless the subject explicitly grants permission otherwise.]

KA

[_Paul Osborne]

I don't trust Dan Peterson nor his political agenda. I smell something rotten deep down. I don't like him. I don't think he is honest in his dealings. That's my opinion. I couldn't sustain him in any calling over me. I would oppose him with uplifted hand.

He does not represent the General Authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He is entitled to his opinion, however, but that is as far as it goes. He is only a school teacher and he will use tricks to deceive less educated people because that is within his flawed character.

That's my opinion. Oh darn, I'm so right.

Paul O

[_KimberlyAnn]

Paul, I don't share your negative opinion of Dr. Peterson.

It is possible that Dr. Peterson is correct in saying that I don't possess the educational background to properly understand the Qur'an. I've not a lot of education, and probably even less intelligence, at least compared to the many well-educated and brilliant posters here. This forum is the perfect showcase for my shortcomings. Still, I assert that it is manifestly obvious to even the ill-educated that Islam is not a religion of peace. Undoubtedly there are millions upon millions of peace-loving Muslims, but that isn't a consequence of their religion, it is in spite of it, at least in my estimation.

KA

[_harmony]

I'm not understanding why it's such an inaccurate or bad thing to say that Islam has historically been spread by the sword. So was Christianity. So what? Denying it isn't going to make it go away. It was what it was. And it still is what it is. It's kinda hard to ignore what it is, when it's staring us in the face everytime we visit what used to be the two towers.

Just as we can't turn our backs on the Inquisition or the Crusades, there is no way to ignore centuries of death by Islam's sword. To ask us to do that is simply ludicrous.

And no, I haven't read What's His Name's book, so I guess that makes me ignorant and illiterate too. The 9/11 victims are still dead, though, and I doubt they read his book either.

[_harmony]

Paul, I don't share your negative opinion of Dr. Peterson.

It is possible that Dr. Peterson is correct in saying that I don't possess the educational background to properly understand the Qur'an. I've not a lot of education, and probably even less intelligence, at least compared to the many well-educated and brilliant posters here.

Balderdash, Kimberly. You have as much intelligence and education as probably 90% of the Muslims for whom the Qur'an is scripture. It's a frickin' book of what some people regard as scripture; it's not rocket science.

This forum is the perfect showcase for my shortcomings.

You add a dimension that is appreciated and treasured. Stop berating yourself because you don't have a PhD. I know lots of PhD's, and many of them couldn't find the bathroom without a map, unless they had someone like you who loved them enough to show them the way.

Still, I assert that it is manifestly obvious to even the ill-educated that Islam is not a religion of peace. Undoubtedly there are millions upon millions of peace-loving Muslims, but that isn't a consequence of their religion, it is in spite of it, at least in my estimation.

KA

Amen, and amen!

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello everyone,

Once again, I am humbled by the thorough drubbing I received at the hands of our good Dr. Peterson. I apologize for my attempt to understand the historical narrative of Islam and the implication it has for the kuffar. I suppose Carlos Bledsoe, hundreds of millions of other Muslims, and myself are equally misunderstanding Islam, Islamic jurisprudence, and Islamic history.

I suppose we should just ignore what Mohammed Reza Taheri-Azar, or if you would like someone with a little more cache Ruhollah Khomeini might say about Islam, Jews, the non-believer, the West, and our values as compared to Islamic jurisprudence.

I suppose the good Dr. Peterson could produce some nice things said by some equally amenable Muslims who embrace Western culture and values, no doubt. However, that does not negate the ground reality for people who live in Muslim majority countries who are forced to pay jizya, are forcefully converted to Islam, raped and then married to their rapists under the blessing of an Islamic court, etc etc... The horrific examples of reality for Muslims and non-Muslims alike within dar al Islam is myriad and endless. I find Dr. Peterson's position, whatever it is I suppose, a difficult one at best.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_Paul Osborne]

Hey Harmony, have you ever dressed in a burqa?

How about you intertain us piggy men and put one on and have a picture taken. Post it in this thread so we can all get a good laugh. I want to see you humbled in a bag!

I'd love to see Harmony wrapped up in a burqa! What a turn on!



Paul O

[_Bond James Bond]

Still, I assert that it is manifestly obvious to even the ill-educated that Islam is not a religion of peace. Undoubtedly there are millions upon millions of peace-loving Muslims, but that isn't a consequence of their religion, it is in spite of it, at least in my estimation.

KA

Isn't Christianity the exact same way? The Old Testament has more gore than the Saw series, then you have a blip of pacifist Jesus, then some correspondence, then the prediction of an epic bloodbath between believers and unbelievers that will be finally decided when the previously mentioned pacifist returns to kick the ass of the masses. Or to put it another way:

I assert that it is manifestly obvious to even the ill-educated that Christianity is not a religion of peace. Undoubtedly there are millions upon millions of peace-loving Christians, but that isn't a consequence of their religion, it is in spite of it, at least in my estimation.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello B23 et al.,

"Whoever changed his (Islamic) religion, then kill him." is coded into Islamic law.

Would you be kind enough to provide the Christian equivalent?

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are ruthless to the Unbelievers, but merciful to each other."

So on and so forth. I do believe, Sir, you are comparing peas and carrots. The sheer quantity of Islamic terror organizations, individuals engaging in criminal behavior justified by the Quran and Hadith, state sponsored financing of said terroristic behavior, and a general support for jihadist organizations "disguised" as charities so pious Muslims can pay zakat are all deeply embedded in Islamic, Arab, and/or Muslim cultures. Why is that so? It is because Islamic jurisprudence explicitly defines, mandates, and abets a perpetual state of warfare against the infidel.

Does there exist a codified Christian law this day that is comparable to Sharia, and is being practiced widely by Christian masses? I would very much like to know if that is the case, Sir.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me