BartBurk wrote: The test of Joseph Smith's mission is found in what he actually taught rather than how he actually lived. It's whether or not the Book of Mormon is true rather than what he might have done with Fanny Alger ...
Joseph Smith taught the lay members of the church lies about polygamy. He taught the "Council of 50" the "truth" about polygamy. He taught his wife Emma lies about polygamy. He was a liar.
So why do you believe someone who is a proven liar and deceiver? I will not.
The Book of Mormon contains many truths and many untruths in my opinion. Just because it has some truth does not make it "true". David Koresh taught many truths to his people but slept with other people's wives. Does it matter how he lived?
sock puppet wrote:These recent attacks on Joseph are very unbecoming.
They aren't recent. My contempt for the poster Joseph spans time and space.
Baker wrote:How many here of alternate belief systems maintain the dogmatic position that his/her beliefs represent the one true way?
Tarski, MrStak, Sock Puppet, EAllusion, Spurven ten Sing, and the other atheists.
My position is not a dogmatic one. It is a statement of my estimation of the warrant for belief in any of the common notions of God.
You may think of me an a agnostic with offending me. Skeptic might be a good word also.
I am also skeptical of the existence of Leprechauns but I don't think I am dogmatic about it in any unreasonable way. Still, since I don't have time to deliver a lecture on epistemology every few minutes I will usual say simply that "there are no such thing as Leprechauns".
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
The premise of your OP is based on a tu quogue logical fallacy and you don't even seem to realize it.
If you are attempting LDS apologetics here, perhaps you should think a bit more about your approach. Hard to imagine a worse premise or thread title from an LDS apologist.
If the thread is intended as apologetics parody on the other hand, well done.
Of course I realize that some might look at the OP as a tu quoque fallacy. But logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.
BartBurk wrote:That's why when I became Catholic I was more concerned about its doctrine than its history. There are of course points where history and doctrine intersect such as the LDS doctrine of polygamy. In that case you have to look at whether or not the doctrine of polygamy is true instead of how the doctrine was carried out. People will always come short of what they profess. The test of Joseph Smith's mission is found in what he actually taught rather than how he actually lived. It's whether or not the Book of Mormon is true rather than what he might have done with Fanny Alger ...
And this is what I am trying to get at. I agree with this.
34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
Simon Belmont wrote:There is no racism in the Book of Mormon.
2 Nephi 5:21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
Although you and I (and all non-mormons) believe that is racist, many Mormons can't see the racism in that verse. Anyone who doesn't see racism in that verse must not believe racism exists at all.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
DarkHelmet wrote:Although you and I (and all non-Mormons) believe that is racist, many Mormons can't see the racism in that verse. Anyone who doesn't see racism in that verse must not believe racism exists at all.
Nicely put! +1
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.