Calling & Election made sure: The Case of William Schryver

[_Pahoran]

So where is Will these days? So much has allegedly happened, and yet all we get are protestations of his innocence from his cronies. What gives?

I do not know the answer to that question. Here is another question I don't know the answer to:

Why is it that you bother to post, if you won't actually comment on the issue at hand? Could it be that the facts admit of only one conclusion, and it might disturb your status as academic-pontificator-in-residence if you actually took a position that your constituency didn't like?

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Jersey Girl]

I have to chime in again.

With regards to C&E made sure. I went through 84 pages of search hits and found only TWO instances where WS made that claim.

In the very first instance, he is addressing his comment to the Dude. He implies that he's already told Dude something to that effect prior...and there are NO prior references to that in his posts. He may have made a remark to the Dude via email, PM or on another board.

In the most recent instance, he is most definitely referencing his posting status as demonstrated in the context that I posted.

In both cases, he uses near identical phrasing.

Whatever.

Some of you folks are claiming that because Will lies about his comments, that he shouldn't be believed (via Pahoran, I guess) that he was referencing his posting status both times.

The truth, and the only truth, is that there is no prior reference in the first mention of "calling and election made sure" by WS.

Period. End to it.

Some have stated that WS made the claim numerous or multiple times.

Again...he made the claim TWICE.

If you go through the search results for "calling and election" you will see that others have mentioned it numerous and multiple times, including Shades who apparently didn't bother to seek context for either claim.

So, although I have no horse in this race and I think WS is probably, well, I can't say it in the CF...the statements being made by some on these threads with regards to C&E claims by WS are completely bogus and without merit or evidence to back them up.

I am not a supporter of these sorts of gossipy/board urban legends being dragged around the boards. That, more than anything and only after first disagreeing with Pahoran and examining the context, is why I posted on these threads and those who challenge WS as a non-academic (I would agree, I suppose) are showing me nothing academic in their campaign about this C&E business.

If anyone disagrees with me, show me the earliest reference again and demonstrate the context in which he is referring to either the 2nd Anointing
or his posting status.

Otherwise, I see nothing to pin on either conclusion regarding the earliest reference beyond an attempt at mind reading and/or a desire to lump on yet another layer of guilt to WS when it is unnecessary.

Someone show me.

[_Kishkumen]

If anyone disagrees with me, show me the earliest reference again and demonstrate the context in which he is referring to either the 2nd Anointing
or his posting status.

He could not have been referring to his posting status two years before he reached his #1000 post, and yet he refers to having his calling and election made sure. I don't understand your confusion on that point.

Otherwise, I see nothing to pin on either conclusion regarding the earliest reference beyond an attempt at mind reading and/or a desire to lump on yet another layer of guilt to WS when it is unnecessary.

Someone show me.

Will had many opportunities to set the record straight on that one, since people here have raised it with him on many occasions. It was his decision not to. He seems to revel in the amplification of his colorful "legend." It was a risky approach.

Listen, personally I don't care whether he jokes about having his calling and election made sure. The implication that he was free to do as he liked to us with impunity was a little tasteless, but as far as I can see he was only risking his own hide in the process. That part really doesn't matter to me.

Pahoran is the one who claims, on Will's behalf, whether per his request or not, that Will meant this or that. He claimed that in the second instance Will was only referring to his exaltation on the board. I provided evidence that he claimed the C&E long before that. Now we are being told something about beer and some banter with the Dude.

Who cares, really? The root issue remains this: Will always felt no compunction about treating people outside of his camp like dirt. This is simply another example of the many "humorous" approaches he took to running everyone he disliked down. The fact that he chose something like the C&E as a point of humor was a little shocking, but Will aims to shock. That's his way.

So, I don't really find this to be a big deal. It is just Will being Will. I see nothing to prove and nothing to defend. I suppose if the people at NAMIRS don't like the fact that Will jokes about how he could take us all out without shedding innocent blood because his calling and election has been made sure, well, then that is their business.

[_beastie]

Will had many opportunities to set the record straight on that one, since people here have raised it with him on many occasions. It was his decision not to. He seems to revel in the amplification of his colorful "legend." It was a risky approach.

This correlates with my theory, based on Will's own words about his approach to posting on this board:

my story is comprised of multiple opaque ambiguities, deliberately crafted and consciously assembled consistent with my mischievous designs to befuddle, bewilder, and otherwise bedevil you and your cohorts here in the GSTP©.

I think he wanted us to think he'd had his CEMS.

[_Kishkumen]

Could it be that the facts admit of only one conclusion, and it might disturb your status as academic-pontificator-in-residence if you actually took a position that your constituency didn't like?

Pahoran,

Simon Belmont couldn't have put it any better than you, and, in fact, he frequently has said almost exactly the same thing. Too bad everyone knows that this claim has been contradicted by the facts numerous times, at least one or more of which you have witnessed.

Are you saying that my "faction" (whoever these people are) reveled in my concession that you were right that the LDS Church does not go in search of government handouts? In fact, Kevin Graham liked it so much that he claimed just the opposite almost directly after that.

Hatred is unbecoming in anyone, Pahoran. Even in apologists chasing down supposed anti-Mormons--you know, like you.

[_Kishkumen]

I think he wanted us to think he'd had his CEMS.

Of course he did. He was happy to have us draw whatever conclusions, no matter how inaccurate, so long as he couldn't be pinned down on them. The thing is: that may work well on apologetic issues, but when it comes to creating a public profile, it is quite risky. From what I have seen, Mormons like people to be straight shooters when it comes to sacred issues. They don't generally find ambiguities on such important matters to be all that entertaining. I am not here to judge Will's actions or Mormon culture; all I am saying is that this may not have been the plan for building a reputation as a reliable champion of the faith.

In any case, Will has claimed that his apologetic career was a temporary gig, whether to save face or in earnest. I really don't care either way. I hope that NAMIRS publishes Will and that he can put all of this unpleasantness behind him. It would be very discouraging for me to see that repentance works with Christ but not with NAMIRS or the LDS Church as an institution. I would also be hugely disappointed to see some distasteful talk on the internet prevent an interesting contribution to the Book of Abraham discussion from seeing the light of day.

[_Jersey Girl]

Kish

He could not have been referring to his posting status two years before he reached his #1000 post, and yet he refers to having his calling and election made sure. I don't understand your confusion on that point.

There is no way to tell just exactly what he was referring to in the earliest post. He appears to reference an earlier comment to the Dude which doesn't appear on the board.

I suppose that the Dude might remember the comment were he presently on the board.

I also think that WS could have addressed his comment when he appeared on Jack's thread. I think he chose not to because he simply likes jerking people around.

[_Jersey Girl]

So where is Will these days? So much has allegedly happened, and yet all we get are protestations of his innocence from his cronies. What gives?

Maybe he's trying to figure out a way to spin his way out of using a sacred rite as a vehicle for humor.

Maybe he's simply relying on others to do the talking for him.

Or both.

[_Kishkumen]

I think he chose not to because he simply likes jerking people around.

Yes, and now he may see that it is a risky thing to do too much.

[_Kishkumen]

Maybe he's trying to figure out a way to spin his way out of using a sacred rite as a vehicle for humor.

Could be. There was a time when the relationship between the C&E and the Second Anointing was not well publicized in the Church or well understood. McConkie was partly to blame there. I am not sure someone would necessarily have to connect the two things in order to claim to have the C&E.

Maybe he's simply relying on others to do the talking for him.

Could be that he has been told to lay off the boards if he ever wants NAMIRS to publish his work.