DrW wrote:Peoples Temple, Branch Dividians, and Heaven's Gate were cults that took their members to early death. Death cults, while not that common, certainly do come along every now and then.
I understand that you are not now a member of the LDS Church. If not, then you may not know that, up until a few years ago, faithful Mormons who attended the Temple took an oath to suffer their lives to be taken before revelaing certain "secrets".
I am still a member. I haven't resigned my membership. I remember the old temple ceremony. It was strange but understandable considering the persecutions Mormons experienced. And it certainly had nothing to do with death cults. However, can we claim that the early christians belonged to a death cult since many went to their death quite willingly? And was Christ the leader of a death cult since he willingly went to his death?
You said it. I didn't.
I personally see many aspects of the Jesus mythology as troubling, especially as they are reflected in Mormonism.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
DrW wrote: I personally see many aspects of the Jesus mythology as troubling, especially as they are reflected in Mormonism.
Mormonism is quite innocent when it comes to a Jesus mythology. In catholicism, the crucifix is common. And in protestantism, the cross is quite normal. Both can be considered death symbols.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
I don't think that early Mormons wanted to lose their lives for their beliefs. However, the persecution that they experienced from the mobs was intenseand some lost their lives because of it. Not much different from the early martyrs
Of course if Joseph had his visions and experiences and the witnesses did also, not much can be said here. Such experiences would create strong belief.
Again you are comparing mass suicides to the Mormon experience. But this comparison fall short since no mass suicide ocurred. Joseph went to his own death and did have the flock eat poison jello.
And what are you willing to die for? Your country? Your children? Your friends? Again your comparisons do not hold water. In fact, your comments should be directed at the mobs who persecuted the Mormons.
The comparisons the critics use have no say in this matter: Jim Jones, David Koresh etc. To equate the LDS church with such sects is ignorant.
Are you genuinely incapable of grasping this point?
Intensity of belief has no correlation with accuracy of belief.
That's as simply as I can possibly put it.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
DrW wrote: I personally see many aspects of the Jesus mythology as troubling, especially as they are reflected in Mormonism.
Mormonism is quite innocent when it comes to a Jesus mythology. In catholicism, the crucifix is common. And in protestantism, the cross is quite normal. Both can be considered death symbols.
Mormonism has the same mythology as Catholicism or Protestantism, unless you are saying the Mormons don't believe Jesus suffered and died on the cross for mens' sins.
At least Catholics and Protestants don't covenant to kill themselves in a gruesome manner. Death is just one possibility in the symbolism of the crucifix or cross, promising to slash your throat or disembowel yourself is nothing but death, self inflicted no less.
café crema wrote:Mormonism has the same mythology as Catholicism or Protestantism, unless you are saying the Mormons don't believe Jesus suffered and died on the cross for mens' sins.
At least Catholics and Protestants don't covenant to kill themselves in a gruesome manner. Death is just one possibility in the symbolism of the crucifix or cross, promising to slash your throat or disembowel yourself is nothing but death, self inflicted no less.
Certain christian groups can create a death culture through the use of the crucifix and cross. After all, it was a gruesome death to die that way, and Jesus was not alone in experiencing it. Many before him were put to the cross or pole. However, christians have gotten around it by not so much focusing on death but on life that occured with the resurrection.
Mormons no longer have the cross as a symbol. They tend to focus on the life that Jesus' death brought to us, ie, the living Christ.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
café crema wrote:Mormonism has the same mythology as Catholicism or Protestantism, unless you are saying the Mormons don't believe Jesus suffered and died on the cross for mens' sins.
At least Catholics and Protestants don't covenant to kill themselves in a gruesome manner. Death is just one possibility in the symbolism of the crucifix or cross, promising to slash your throat or disembowel yourself is nothing but death, self inflicted no less.
Certain christian groups can create a death culture through the use of the crucifix and cross. After all, it was a gruesome death to die that way, and Jesus was not alone in experiencing it. Many before him were put to the cross or pole. However, christians have gotten around it by not so much focusing on death but on life that occured with the resurrection.
Mormons no longer have the cross as a symbol. They tend to focus on the life that Jesus' death brought to us, ie, the living Christ.
Provide references for the "death cultures". All adult LDS promise to slit their throats and disembowel themselves, nothing says death more than that. That is one gory death culture the LDS have going, standard slasher movie stuff.
café crema wrote: All adult LDS promise to slit their throats and disembowel themselves, nothing says death more than that. That is one gory death culture the LDS have going, standard slasher movie stuff.
No they don't.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith