Our first visit from the bishopric

[_quark]

Horse filtered toilet water.

;)

But seriously, Heineken is foul.

I thought Heineken was just Dutch Coors.

Huh. I was kind of enjoying it. It makes me feel like a real working man.

[_stemelbow]

Stemelbow,

With respect to the current back-and-forth with Buffalo, I believe you are misreading (though it was easy to misread, I'll give you that)...

May be. But, its apparent to me he took issue with my response when I just took him at his word. It was his error in communication, I'd say. But that's no big deal if he meant something else. It'd be nice if he owned up to it.

I have a question for you: Have you every held a calling that required you to attend PEC/Ward Council on a regular basis?

yes.

If so, how long did you hold that calling and how many (approximately) PEC/Ward Council meetings did you attend? What calling was it, if I may ask?

I've held a few different callings over a number of years which had me attending these regularly. I have no idear how many that totalled to.

In the spirit of being conciliatory here, full disclosure: I will have more questions/comments based on your answers.

Thanks,
H.

how exciting. Let's focus this down onto me.

[_Buffalo]

Stemelbow,

With respect to the current back-and-forth with Buffalo, I believe you are misreading (though it was easy to misread, I'll give you that)...

May be. But, its apparent to me he took issue with my response when I just took him at his word. It was his error in communication, I'd say. But that's no big deal if he meant something else. It'd be nice if he owned up to it.

I'm more than happy to own up to your complete lack of reading comprehension. :)

[_LDSToronto]

I have a question for you: Have you every held a calling that required you to attend PEC/Ward Council on a regular basis?

yes.

If so, how long did you hold that calling and how many (approximately) PEC/Ward Council meetings did you attend? What calling was it, if I may ask?

I've held a few different callings over a number of years which had me attending these regularly. I have no idear how many that totalled to.

In the spirit of being conciliatory here, full disclosure: I will have more questions/comments based on your answers.

Thanks,
H.

how exciting. Let's focus this down onto me.

Not trying to make this about you, stem, more, I want to make sure we have a common starting point - you've been to PEC/Ward Council, I've been to PEC/Ward Council, so so we both have a place of comparison. Cool.

I assume you've heard of the term 'friendshipper' or 'friendshipping'? For those who have never had the pleasure of attending a ward council or PEC, friendshipping is the combined effort of the ward leadership to find a less active member, or an investigator, and assign a suitable member to be that person's 'friend'.

A more recent phenomena is The Rescue program. This is where the Ward Mission Leader keeps a list of the 10-15 inactive/less-active members, with Relief Society/Elders Quorum/High Priesthood adding names to the list. These member are assigned a leader, and these leaders are tasked with visiting the member and challenging them to either meet with the missionaries to re-take the discussions, or to meet with the bishop. The bishop will then meet with the member and challenge them to do something, like get a temple recommend. If the member doesn't respond, they are removed from the list and are replaced by someone else.

The fact is, people like quark and his family are always on some watch list in their local ward. They may have genuine friends in the ward, but even those friends will be called upon to dig deeper and return and report to their file leaders - here's a typical conversation in Ward Council:

Ward Mission Leader: So, we have the Quark's, they just moved in a while ago, but Brother Quark is inactive, and that is holding his wife and children back (ed.note: the ward mission leader, or any leader for that matter, usually frame things in a negative light based on assumptions, not on actual visits. The WML may not have even met the Quark's, but heard something third hand and made a conclusion)

Relief Society President: Oh, Sister Neutrino is a good friend of Sister Quark. I'll ask her to see if she can find out what is going on.

Bishop: Excellent, Sister Nez. Hand me the endowed without recommend sheet... thanks. Ah yes, I see Brother Quark has not had a recommend in quite some time. Perhaps it's time I challenged Brother Quark to bring his sweet bride back to the temple.

Young Men's President: Hey! We've got the youth temple trip coming up next month. I'll see if we can get Johnny Quark to come - and then we'll get Johnny to bring his dad along!

Bishop: Wonderful idea, Brother Milk!

Relief Society President: Oh, Bishop Balls, I just feel so much sorrow for this family. If we can just get them to the temple, I know they will be so much happier.

Bishop: Yes, we really can't let this family perish.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. The thing is, every person who has gone inactive is treated like a tragedy. The council never strives to really figure out why they are inactive, they just assign a friend or leader, and hope for the best.

So, Stem, that's why I asked if you've been to PEC/Ward Council, because I got the impression that you had never seen this type of thing happen before.

H.

[_stemelbow]

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. The thing is, every person who has gone inactive is treated like a tragedy. The council never strives to really figure out why they are inactive, they just assign a friend or leader, and hope for the best.

So, Stem, that's why I asked if you've been to PEC/Ward Council, because I got the impression that you had never seen this type of thing happen before.

H.

I have no idea where you got the impression I hadn't. but it doesn't matter. I was hoping for more questions from you. I had merely commented on Buffalo's 100% of the time Mormons pretend to be friends in these situations. I disagreed with his characterization so I said so. He was adamant about it. I don't really know why. I continue to disagree. I disagree that the way you've outlined a typical scene above is 100% across the board. I've seen it and been part of it all been done differently. And I've already said in this thread that I agree that there are often members assigned to go and check on other people that live in the ward boundaries and may or may not come to chuch, or believe. That of course was not the issue I had.

[_Ceeboo]

Relief Society President: Oh, Bishop Balls

Really?

I wonder if there is someone who is sealed to Mr.Balls for all enternity?

That's odd.



Peace,
Ceeboo

[_DarkHelmet]

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. The thing is, every person who has gone inactive is treated like a tragedy. The council never strives to really figure out why they are inactive, they just assign a friend or leader, and hope for the best.

So, Stem, that's why I asked if you've been to PEC/Ward Council, because I got the impression that you had never seen this type of thing happen before.

H.

I have no idea where you got the impression I hadn't. but it doesn't matter. I was hoping for more questions from you. I had merely commented on Buffalo's 100% of the time Mormons pretend to be friends in these situations. I disagreed with his characterization so I said so. He was adamant about it. I don't really know why. I continue to disagree. I disagree that the way you've outlined a typical scene above is 100% across the board. I've seen it and been part of it all been done differently. And I've already said in this thread that I agree that there are often members assigned to go and check on other people that live in the ward boundaries and may or may not come to chuch, or believe. That of course was not the issue I had.

I'm sure Bishop Balls would agree with stemelbow.

[_LDSToronto]

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. The thing is, every person who has gone inactive is treated like a tragedy. The council never strives to really figure out why they are inactive, they just assign a friend or leader, and hope for the best.

So, Stem, that's why I asked if you've been to PEC/Ward Council, because I got the impression that you had never seen this type of thing happen before.

H.

I have no idea where you got the impression I hadn't. but it doesn't matter. I was hoping for more questions from you. I had merely commented on Buffalo's 100% of the time Mormons pretend to be friends in these situations. I disagreed with his characterization so I said so. He was adamant about it. I don't really know why. I continue to disagree. I disagree that the way you've outlined a typical scene above is 100% across the board. I've seen it and been part of it all been done differently. And I've already said in this thread that I agree that there are often members assigned to go and check on other people that live in the ward boundaries and may or may not come to chuch, or believe. That of course was not the issue I had.

Ok, fair enough - I didn't pepper you with questions because I didn't want you to think this was about you.

I've been in PEC/Ward Council for well over 17 years, and have been in multiple wards/stakes and have seen very little variation in the training from General Authorities and in the way those meetings are conducted. Perhaps you can share your experience?

H.

[_Runtu]

Ok, fair enough - I didn't pepper you with questions because I didn't want you to think this was about you.

I've been in PEC/Ward Council for well over 17 years, and have been in multiple wards/stakes and have seen very little variation in the training from General Authorities and in the way those meetings are conducted. Perhaps you can share your experience?

H.

Most people I know feel sincere when they "fellowship" and "friendship" others, but as long as it's an assigned friendship, it's never going to be completely sincere. But I do think it's motivated by genuine concern and love on some level.

Of course, we've all had the experience of a friend who vanishes as soon as you don't do what they want you to do. One of my good friends was assigned to fellowship me, and we're still very good friends. Sometimes assigned friends can be true friends.

[_LDSToronto]

Ok, fair enough - I didn't pepper you with questions because I didn't want you to think this was about you.

I've been in PEC/Ward Council for well over 17 years, and have been in multiple wards/stakes and have seen very little variation in the training from General Authorities and in the way those meetings are conducted. Perhaps you can share your experience?

H.

Most people I know feel sincere when they "fellowship" and "friendship" others, but as long as it's an assigned friendship, it's never going to be completely sincere. But I do think it's motivated by genuine concern and love on some level.

Of course, we've all had the experience of a friend who vanishes as soon as you don't do what they want you to do. One of my good friends was assigned to fellowship me, and we're still very good friends. Sometimes assigned friends can be true friends.

Without doubt, those that take the assignment are sincere, but I question what they are sincere about. While you gained a lifetime friend, I think that is the exceptional case. I've seen how sausages are made - the member who is assigned to be a friend isn't so much concerned with the individual as a person; they are concerned with the flipping the status bit from 'inactive' to 'active'. The goal is not friendship, the goal is conversion.

I've heard so many "return and reports" that sound like this - "Br. X isn't interested in coming back to church, but if we could just do Y, then Br. X might have his heart softened". Or, more commonly, "Sister X isn't interested in coming back to church, we should just move". I've never, ever heard, "Br.X is a real awesome fellow and he and I really hit it off. We're having (root)beers this Saturday while we watch the game". If anything close to that even came up, the Bishop would counsel the new friend to "bring up the gospel, make sure Br. X knows why we are really here".

Colour me cynical, but I don't think I am. Like I said, I've seen how sausages are made in the LDS church...

H.