Why did I ever read beyond the slaying of Laban?

[_Tchild]

I think we have a misunderstanding here. I would not reject reject my beliefs, which you do, and said the secular world does too. I can reject muslims stoning a Christian girl in the name of god, because the Spirit of G-d can lead me to the truth.

I do not reject your beliefs. I reject the method you arrive at truth as it pertains to people other than yourself.

The spirit of God leads the Muslims to stone a person to death. Is there more than one God? If not, then your methodology is flawed and Muslims stoning a girl (which you do not approve of) is proof of your a flawed methodology for arriving at truth concerning others.

If there is a god, you seem to suggest that He leaves us without any way of knowing the truth for sure...we're just on our own, and hopefully we are lucky enough to get it right. Now that, I reject.

God leaves the truth to be found within yourself and for yourself only. Neither you, nor any Book of Mormon character have any moral authority under any circumstances to act as an agent of God's judgement upon another. That is the truth that you glaringly miss. That is the truth that I embrace, and that is the only fair and reasonable way to live in a diverse world such as ours.

[_Gordon]

Gordon -

Are there two Gods? Are there two Holy Ghosts? How can you get an anwer from God or the HG, while I get the opposite from God or the Holy Ghost?

Are there tens of thousands of God's and tens of thousands of different Holy Ghosts that we all are getting different answers?

The Lord does not give differing answers. Only Man comes to differing conclusions. There is only one right answer...whether you like it or not. Either I'm wrong, or you are. We can both be wrong, but both can't be right.

[_Gordon]

That ability sure would have come in handy in the cases of John Bennett, Mark Hoffman, or Paul Dunn.

I'm sure it would have.

However, some just might not have been paying attention...

[_Tchild]

I tend to not believe that you have had any such confirmation from the HG, since you have admitted to aligning yourself with the secular world views on the matter, and have stated your support for reasoned and enlightened minds over the HG.

It appears as if you are simply trying to create an impasse which doesn't actually exist.

I served a mission, took out my endowments, went through the temple dozens of times and probably prayed eight trillion times to God. I thought the same way you did for many years...until such thinking created more confusion than I could bear.

I would say the same thing to you: Neither God nor the Holy Ghost has ever confirmed to you that humans have been authorized to murder at their command.

At least for me, I find God commanded murders utterly repugnant. You only find them repugnant when religions other than your own commit them. How is that even consistent with your own beliefs about God?

[_Gordon]

I do not reject your beliefs. I reject the method you arrive at truth as it pertains to people other than yourself.

The spirit of God leads the Muslims to stone a person to death. Is there more than one God? If not, then your methodology is flawed and Muslims stoning a girl (which you do not approve of) is proof of your a flawed methodology for arriving at truth concerning others.

The Spirit of G-d does not lead Muslims to stone the girl. They may claim this, just as Nephi or Joseph Smith, but the HG can lead one to know the truth.

God leaves the truth to be found within yourself and for yourself only.

Within yourself, yes, but not just for yourself.

Neither you, nor any Book of Mormon character have any moral authority under any circumstances to act as an agent of God's judgement upon another. That is the truth that you glaringly miss. That is the truth that I embrace, and that is the only fair and reasonable way to live in a diverse world such as ours.

We don't have to authority to act for ourselves in such a manner, yes, but the Lord is the ultimate moral character.

[_Gordon]

I served a mission, took out my endowments, went through the temple dozens of times and probably prayed eight trillion times to God. I thought the same way you did for many years...until such thinking created more confusion than I could bear.

It doesn't confuse me in the least. I'm sorry it did for you.

I would say the same thing to you: Neither God nor the Holy Ghost has ever confirmed to you that humans have been authorized to murder at their command.

You have every right to say that to me...however, like I said, we both can't be right.

At least for me, I find God commanded murders utterly repugnant. You only find them repugnant when religions other than your own commit them. How is that even consistent with your own beliefs about God?

Huh? I don't think only LDS can murder in the Lord's name, nor have I even implied such. I believe G-d can command killing to anyone, and that we can know if such an act is from Him or not.

[_Tchild]

The Spirit of G-d does not lead Muslims to stone the girl. They may claim this, just as Nephi or Joseph Smith, but the HG can lead one to know the truth.

And I say, that G-d does not lead any man to kill another, for whatever rationale. The HG has confirmed that to me whether you believe it or not.

God leaves the truth to be found within yourself and for yourself only.

Within yourself, yes, but not just for yourself.

Then I will tell you that the HG has confirmed to me that you need to repent, do five hundred push-ups and drink three gallons of hot coffee. Hey, it is God's will, revealed to me for you!

[_Molok]

"thou shalt not kill"

On your own...I suppose should be the disclaimer. Remember, that command came from G-d. Why do you suppose He must adhere to it Himself? It wasn't meant for Him.

The point is Gordon, God gives contradictory commands. Do you have any explanation for that other than the laughably circular reasoning of "Whatever God says is good because God says it"?

Wow, you don't even have to do anything wrong for God to murder you! He might just do it just to get back at someone else. Why do you worship this fellow?
Death is a wonderful thing. It's horrible to those who do not see, or refuse to accept, the bigger picture.

Well.....that's creepy.

[Guest]

It doesn't confuse me in the least. I'm sorry it did for you.

Don't be sorry. I am very grateful.

You have every right to say that to me...however, like I said, we both can't be right.

No, and since there is no objective way to know who is right, there must be a system of human society that understands that no one has the right to claim to speak on God's behalf for another when it involves violating that person's free agency and self-determination.

Huh? I don't think only LDS can murder in the Lord's name, nor have I even implied such. I believe G-d can command killing to anyone, and that we can know if such an act is from Him or not.

Stop it Gordon, now you are scaring me. So, we are back to the Muslims and stoning an 11 year. old Christian girl. You do not approve, but they claim authority from God. So, there cannot be only one God. There must be multiple Gods or such a thing could never be.

[_Themis]

If there is a god, you seem to suggest that He leaves us without any way of knowing the truth for sure...we're just on our own, and hopefully we are lucky enough to get it right. Now that, I reject.

I have said this lately in a couple of threads that this is a dangerous idea. One that sees people being murdered and raped in the name of God. Many of these people think they are talking to God or receiving information from his spirit, and that following what God tells them Trump's everything else.