Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

[_Craig Paxton]

Just checked the King James Version and cannot find those words together. "Curious workmanship" Nearest is in Exodus.

Is it really a smoking gun if all Smith harvested was the narrative Style and the combo word Curious Workmanship?

[Guest]

Well, what with all of the articles Mopologists have failed to write on Hunt and The First Book of Napoleon, one wonders exactly what it is they have been up to all these years? Surely not reading and analyzing contemporary literature in a similar genre. What kind of critical thinker would do that?

Sara Cranford read and analyzed Hunt's The Late War for the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute's "Archive of Restoration Culture" project about a dozen years ago. Her report was published on the BYU Studies website in 2009. Does that count?

Probably. Do you have a link?
________________________

Okay - I see you have added a link. Thanks.

Sorry to bother you, but any hints on navigating through the 30,000 pages to find the Article of interest?

[Guest]

Despite not seeing a silver bullet in this discussion, the similarity in style between History of the Late War and the Book of Mormon remains huge in my book. I still maintain that Smith was probably influenced by this book, at the very least.

When I was a practicing Mormon, I read the Book of Mormon about 30 times before something else stirred me in an new direction. Nothing has come close to giving me the feel of the Book of Mormon than the Late War book. I think it was more than the fact that both authors liked "and it came to pass" and other shared wording. I still feel a connection between the two that transcends whether plagiarism or something similar was involved. I still find this topic to be timely and fascinating.

[_Mary]

Just checked the King James Version and cannot find those words together. "Curious workmanship" Nearest is in Exodus.

Is it really a smoking gun if all Smith harvested was the narrative Style and the combo word Curious Workmanship?

No. Just checking on the use of the phrase in England historically. It comes up in a few books on architecture and the like from the 1500s.

[_AlmaBound]

Ch L, 7

Now these steamboats were cunningly contrived, and had abundance of curious workmanship therein, such as surpassed all the comprehension of all the wise men of the east, from the beginning to this day.

Howbeit, they were fashioned like unto the first vessel that floated upon the waters, which was the ark of Noah, the ninth descendent from Adam.

ETA: I missed your earlier post, Bond! The comparison to Noah's ark in Ether is notable, to me.

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

Just checked the King James Version and cannot find those words together. "Curious workmanship" Nearest is in Exodus.

Is it really a smoking gun if all Smith harvested was the narrative Style and the combo word Curious Workmanship?

For me, the smoking gun would have to be the freemen or the stripling warriors. As far as I know, you're not going to find those anywhere else but in the Book of Mormon and The Great War.

"Curious workmanship" is interesting, but taken together with everything else in The Great War, I think it's pretty compelling.

[_Kishkumen]

We'll just nibble away at this issue. Nevo's limp naysaying has made this a tad more fun.

So, I note that the phrase "curious workmanship" does not occur in the Bible, but it does occur in both Hunt and the Book of Mormon.

Hunt, Ch. 12.12

However, the people of Columbia were pleased with the noble conduct of Jones, and for his valiant acts they gave him a sword of curious workmanship.

Hunt, Ch. 13.13

And when Carden came on board the ship of the Columbia, he bowed his head, and offered to put his sword, of curious workmanship, into the hands of Decatur.

Hunt, Ch. 29.13

And their weapons of war were of curious workmanship, and they sent forth balls of lead; such as were known to Pharaoh when he followed the Children of Israel down into the red sea.

Hunt, Ch. 50.6

For it came to pass, that (assisted by Livingston, a man of wealth, and a lover of arts and learning) he was enabled to construct certain curious vessels, called in the vernacular tongue, steam-boats.

Hunt, Ch. 50.7

Now these steam-boats were cunningly contrived, and had abundance of curious workmanship therein, such as surpassed the comprehension of all the wise men of the east, from the beginning to this day.

Hunt, Ch. 50.28

Now these wonderful torpedoes were made partly of brass and partly of iron, and were cunningly contrived with curious works, like unto a clock; and as it were a large ball.

1 Nephi 16.10

10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one pointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

1 Nephi 18.1

1 And it came to pass that they did worship the Lord, and did go forth with me; and we did work timbers of curious workmanship. And the Lord did show me from time to time after what manner I should work the timbers of the ship.

1 Nephi 18.12

12 And it came to pass that after they had bound me insomuch that I could not move, the compass, which had been prepared of the Lord, did cease to work.

Alma 37.39

39 And behold, there cannot any man work after the manner of so curious a workmanship. And behold, it was prepared to show unto our fathers the course which they should travel in the wilderness.

Ether 10.27

27 And they did make all manner of weapons of war. And they did work all manner of work of exceedingly curious workmanship.

As you have probably noticed, both works use the term curious workmanship in connection with weapons, ships, and "balls."

Hunt Ch. 29. 13 is particularly striking, in my opinion:

And their weapons of war were of curious workmanship, and they sent forth balls of lead; such as were known to Pharaoh when he followed the Children of Israel down into the red sea.

Here you have a reference to "curious workmanship", a ball of metal, and the Exodus of the Children of Israel from Egypt. When you put that alongside the Liahona, a metal ball, which is described as being "of curious workmanship" in the context of the exodus of the family of Lehi through the wilderness to the promised land, that is very suggestive indeed.

Also noteworthy is the description of the torpedoes in Hunt, Ch. 50.28

Now these wonderful torpedoes were made partly of brass and partly of iron, and were cunningly contrived with curious works, like unto a clock; and as it were a large ball.

Just as the Book of Mormon account of the Liahona describes the machinery of this device as a compass and having "were two spindles", the torpedoes in Hunt, made partly of brass and partly of iron, were contrived with curious works, "like unto a clock; and as it were a large ball."

This is really intriguing stuff.

[_Kishkumen]

Ch L, 7

Now these steamboats were cunningly contrived, and had abundance of curious workmanship therein, such as surpassed all the comprehension of all the wise men of the east, from the beginning to this day.

Howbeit, they were fashioned like unto the first vessel that floated upon the waters, which was the ark of Noah, the ninth descendent from Adam.

ETA: I missed your earlier post, Bond! The comparison to Noah's ark in Ether is notable, to me.

Indeed it is!

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

Well, what with all of the articles Mopologists have failed to write on Hunt and The First Book of Napoleon, one wonders exactly what it is they have been up to all these years? Surely not reading and analyzing contemporary literature in a similar genre. What kind of critical thinker would do that?

Sara Cranford read and analyzed Hunt's The Late War for the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute's "Archive of Restoration Culture" project about a dozen years ago. Her report was published on the BYU Studies website in 2009 (see p. 215). Does that count?

Nevo, all your link pulls up is this:

Topics: Book of Mormon, Translation
Author: Gilbert J. Hunt
Title of Book: The Late War, Between the United States and Great Britain
Title of Article:
Title of Periodical:
Place of Publication: New York
Publisher: Daniel D. Smith
Date of Publication: 1819
Library Location: Microfiche Z 1201.S32 Unit 179, 17184-18187
Nature of Source: Grunder describes this as an "essentially naïve, jingoistic, but extremely popular panoply of American virtues in the face of British wickedness in the war of 1812." However, he justifies putting it on the list because Hunt writes his book in biblical style, which, according to Grunder, illustrates "the ease with which works that sounded like the Bible could be written and marketed in the early United States."
Comment: The author admittedly tries to imitate Biblical style in his writings. He divides his book into chapters and verses and uses similar wording as the Bible. His work does not include books (like Matthew, Mark, etc.) but instead just has chapter and verse numbers. To the untrained eye, the book clearly does resemble Biblical style. However, a trained scholar in ancient texts would easily be able to pick out obvious differences. Furthermore, there is clearly a major difference in content between Hunt's book and the Book of Mormon. Joseph did not try to merely write a familiar historical event in Biblical fashion. His book was of a content never before heard, an entirely new history, and one that he claimed to be directly from God.
Researcher: Sara Cranford
Excerpt (pages): "17 Now it was on the eighteenth day of the fifth month, in the same year, in the afterpart of the day..."(310).
"24 Now these things happened nigh unto a place called Carthagene, on the borders of Spain, and when the Spaniards beheld the skill and prowess of the people of Columbia, they were amazed"(311).
"2 But lo! When his fleet arrived there..."(315).
"39 Now it came to pass, when Jackson heard that Pensacola, the capital of west Florida, had become a resting place for the enemies of Columbia..."(263).
Length of Relevant Material: 317 pps.

Is there anything else?

[_Blixa]

Well, what with all of the articles Mopologists have failed to write on Hunt and The First Book of Napoleon, one wonders exactly what it is they have been up to all these years? Surely not reading and analyzing contemporary literature in a similar genre. What kind of critical thinker would do that?

Sara Cranford read and analyzed Hunt's The Late War for the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute's "Archive of Restoration Culture" project about a dozen years ago. Her report was published on the BYU Studies website in 2009 (see p. 215). Does that count?

Thanks for the link, Nevo. I haven't had time to read it yet.

I find these "finds" interesting and suggestive. I've never thought there was anything in the Book of Mormon that was utterly outside of a 19thC vernacular. If these texts widen and sharpen the understanding of Joseph Smith's discursive milieu, then I think that's useful.