Mormon at ages 11, 15, 24 is really Joseph Smith Jr., in disguise!

[Shulem]

Which came first: the chicken or the egg? Or in this case, who is the chicken and who is the egg? Believers will sport the idea that Mormon was historical and served as a type and shadow of Joseph Smith, thus Mormon was a chicken and Smith became a futuristic egg. On the other hand, unbelievers know that Mormon is a person of fiction and will naturally identity Smith as the chicken who laid an egg called Mormon.

I feel somewhat assured that this thread clearly lays out the groundwork in showing that Joseph Smith was playing God in pretending to write ancient scripture and secretly include himself in the story while laughing at how everyone never noticed it. I get the feeling that Smith had many a good laugh at the expense of those who were fool enough to believe his tricks.

Everyone who has kept up with this thread now has a good idea how Smith loved to play games and get one over everyone unless of course you believe the Book of Mormon is a genuine and historical account in which God made a Mormon out of Joseph Smith!



I bear my solemn testimony that I know with all my mind and heart that the Book of Mormon is a work of fiction. I absolutely know it.

[I Have Questions]

Shulem,

Did you note that Mormon said that at 15 he was "visited of the Lord," and in his earliest First Vision account Joseph Smith mentioned that he was 15 when he saw the Lord?

Also, Mormon grew up during a war with the Lamanites and a time when there were slippery treasures and such, which also parallel Joseph Smith's growing up.

There are unquestionably parallels between Joseph Smith and Mormon: they are closely parallel figures. I would hope everyone would recognize that. What people may disagree on is just the source and meaning of the parallels.

What's your take on the source and the meaning of the parallels Don?

I'm unconvinced that Don will answer this. I'm baffled as to why not.

[Shulem]

What's your take on the source and the meaning of the parallels Don?

I'm unconvinced that Don will answer this. I'm baffled as to why not.

Because he knows better than to try and come on this forum and run a lie down our throats as if we will take bait from silly Mormon apologetics which is dope for a crack-pipe --take Dan Peterson who is a spiritual dope pusher and a Mormon drug addict of sorts! Same goes for MG. He even tries and I will kick his Goddamn ass so hard the door will hurt on his way out!

Bradley knows that Joseph Smith, Cowdery, the Pratts, mother Smith, and everyone else never said jack about events in Mormon's life representing Joseph Smith as a type and shadow. Absolutely nothing! Dead silence! Everyone knew about the Book of Mormon prophecies of the coming of the latter-day seer and how his name would be Joseph after his own father and how that was even known by Joseph who was sold into Egypt. So, that was a type or shadow that Smith did in fact acknowledge in his fictitious prophecies.
So, Don, don't even try to convince us about the 11-15-24 parallel because we here on this board are way too smart and informed to fall for that crap. In fact buddy, you're over your head on this one because I doubt you've fully fleshed it out. I will be reading the remainder of your 116 Lost Pages book when I feel inclined. Wake up and realize that Smith jettisoned the Book of Lehi and invented the Book of Nephi whereby he could tell the story anew through the eyes of Nephi and thus not have to get all the details correct when Lucy would compare the translations. I'm afraid, my friend, you are blinded by the craftiness of apologetics.

Now, perhaps I'm just getting nasty but I feel pissed right now because Smith pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and apologists keep the lies alive. It makes me sick. I won't stand for it!



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Terrestrial Forum Shulem cracks the code for The Book of Lehi/116 Lost Pages!!
Celestial Forum Book of Lehi and the 116-page Manuscript

[Shulem]

There are unquestionably parallels between Joseph Smith and Mormon: they are closely parallel figures. I would hope everyone would recognize that. What people may disagree on is just the source and meaning of the parallels.

And yet the 2017 Book of Mormon Seminary Teacher Manual fails to expound on the 11-15-24 parallels in which the ignorant youth of the Church don't know what you know, Don.

We get this:

Who wrote this book?

Mormon wrote the first seven chapters of this book as a brief account of the wickedness and wars among the Nephites and Lamanites in his day. He also made a full account of the events from his lifetime on the large plates of Nephi (see Mormon 2:18; 5:9). When Mormon was about 10 years old, the record keeper Ammaron charged him to take responsibility for the sacred records when he came of age. He was to record everything he observed concerning the people (see Mormon 1:4). At age 15, Mormon was “visited of the Lord, and tasted and knew of the goodness of Jesus” (Mormon 1:15). In the same year, the Nephites appointed Mormon to lead their armies (see Mormon 2:1). Obedient to Ammaron’s counsel, he later obtained the large plates of Nephi and began to make his record. He also abridged the large plates of Nephi, which included writings from prophets and record keepers from Lehi through Ammaron, and inserted the small plates of Nephi into that abridgement.

Chirp, chirp, crickets! The youth of Zion are told nothing!

Although Mormon grew up in a time of great wickedness, he chose to be faithful. Because of his faithfulness, he was told that he would be entrusted with the people’s sacred records later in his life. At age 15, he was “visited of the Lord” (Mormon 1:15).

<snip>

Ask a student who is 15 years old (or close to age 15) to read Mormon 2:1–2 aloud. Invite the class to look for additional attributes of the prophet Mormon. Ask them to report what they find, and add their responses to the list on the board.

• In what ways might the attributes listed on the board have helped Mormon as a leader of an army?

No parallel was offered to compare Joseph Smith being visited in his 15th year. Further, no parallels are given to compare young Joseph migrating at age 11 as did Mormon and that both characters retrieved plates at age 24 in which they were commissioned to translate them.

It seems the Church is not teaching the children! Why is that? Oh, never mind, don't bother answering. The fact is the kids don't know jack!

[Shulem]

Apologists who have made the 11-15-24 connection in recognizing there are clear and definite parallels regarding the ages and circumstances between Mormon and Smith are left with a dilemma. What to make of it all? Why have not the prophets (Church Presidents) weighed in on this matter and establish a kind of understanding of why this is? Apologists who are looking for confirmation and further light and knowledge or explanation get nothing from their lazy learning Church Presidents, especially Nelson, a lazy, lying, gay-bashing SOB!

Take Don Bradley for example. The poor guy is left without a prophetic rudder to steer Mormon apologetics in a unified direction. Church members who wonder about all this are left to ponder why their prophets say nothing new but continue to spout the same old regurgitated chanting that spews out of their mouths like religious vomit -- tired and repetitive sanctimonious rantings!

Sorry, Don, but you're on your own because the prophets won't help you!

[Shulem]

Can't you see how Joseph Smith was full of himself and how his big ego wrote himself by name, "JOSEPH" (Jr. & Sr.), into the script (2 Nephi 3) as if God deemed him so holy that his name must be announced upon the housetops for everyone to hear? You see, it was a Nephite prophecy (compliments of Joseph Smith Jr.) that the name "Joseph" was foreknown to be the latter-day "choice seer" and all of the prophets and writers who maintained the plates knew about it. It was fodder for church talks! Surely Jacob talked about it while preaching (Jacob 1:17; 2:2, 11) in the temple. The coming of the latter day seer would be named Joseph. Everyone knew it, even the Lamanites! The bloody Lamanites had to have known about it for centuries up until the final battle at Cumorah and thereafter.

Soooooo (Philo ), where is the name "JOSEPH" carved on dilapidated monuments or mountains of the promised land? Show me a potsherd that bears the name of JOSEPH in ancient America and then maybe, just maybe, we can entertain the idea of Mormon being a type and shadow of one who would migrate when age 11, see Jesus at age 15, and translate plates found buried under a hill when age 24 just so he could be like the choice seer. Give me a Goddamn break!

Mormonism is twisted logic having no proof or evidence to back its silly claims. Mormonism will never BS me again!

[Shulem]

He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.

But even in ancient America everyone had to have known about the prophesied name of JOSEPH the "choice seer" because Nephi wrote it down on the plates and his brother Jacob taught it to the people.

All hail, Joseph Smith the prophet! Even the Lamanites knew about it! Everyone did. Smith was so full of his own name and character being a type and shadow that he invented things in order to glorify himself and make him a self-appointed prophet through Moroni who appeared only to him. Ultimately, he wanted to take over the Christian religion, dethrone the pope, and have all religious sects bow to his authority.

Give me a Goddamn break.

[Shulem]

A righteous man named Ammaron hid the golden plates so they would be safe. He told a boy named Mormon where the plates were hidden. He told Mormon to write on the plates when he was older.

The story does not begin with Mormon being a type and shadow of Joseph Smith migrating at age 11 nor does it designate an age in which to recover the plates.

When Mormon was 15 years old, Jesus Christ visited him and taught him about the gospel. Mormon tried to teach the people about Jesus, but they wouldn’t listen.

The story does not compare Mormon's experience with that of Joseph Smith in his 15th year.

When Mormon got older, he got the plates. He wrote about Jesus Christ. He wrote that we can repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost.

How old was Mormon suppose to be when he was permitted to acquire the plates? The children's story on the Church website does not say. It's as if it isn't very important or of any consequence. No type or shadow is suggested in the narrative.

[Shulem]

A righteous man, Ammaron, had the sacred records. The Holy Ghost told him to hide them so they would be safe. Ammaron told Mormon, a 10-year-old boy, where the records were hidden. Ammaron knew he could trust Mormon. When he was 24, Mormon was to get the plates of Nephi and write on them about his people.

There is no mention that Mormon was a type and shadow of the future choice seer or that the choice seer was a type and shadow of Mormon. But in this telling the children are informed that Mormon would be 24 when he gets the plates.

When Mormon was 11, a war started between the Nephites and Lamanites. The Nephites won, and there was peace again.

No mention that 11 year-old Mormon was a type of the choice seer or that the choice seer was a type of him.

When Mormon was 15, Jesus Christ visited him. Mormon learned more about the Savior and his goodness.

Again, no type or shadow is mentioned.

[Shulem]

The narration pays no mind whatsoever of prophet Mormon being a type or shadow of the coming of the choice seer. Neither does it cast any reflection of the choice seer being a type or shadow of Mormon. There is absolutory zero indication of prophecy! It's simply a matter of Mormon living his life and doing his thing in his time.

So, the apologists are stuck with a case of 0 x 0 = 0.

Further, there was nobody on God's green earth more qualified to explain the Book of Mormon than Joseph Smith himself and he said zero about Mormon being a type and shadow. The simple fact that the text says nothing, and knowing what we know today, is all the proof we need that Smith was obviously in the know and wanted to keep it private between himself and his book.

The joke is on the apologists for failing to realize they've been duped -- even Don Bradley, our friend here on this board, is duped.

Don, you've been had!